DD's refusing to wear a bra, her Head of Year is saying she isn't allowed at school.

[EmmelineW]

DD is 14 (Yr 9) she tried a bra at 12, hated it and has refused to wear one since. She did try a sports bra, which she wore a couple of times in the day but now refuses and would only wear for PE. She's very confident and popular, so it hasn't ever caused any teasing (she normally makes a joke and is very vocal about not wearing one, she says that if she wasn't, she would be bullied because of it).

She had PE today, which was the first lesson she refused to wear her sports bra, she was told to not take part by her PE teacher - her PE teacher is very 'down with the kids' and mentioned it to her privately.

I would just like to say, previously to this, I was called in to make sure that she had a female role model to talk to about periods/bras as it had come to their attention, that was all cleared up.

Head of Year sent her home today because of it and said she isn't allowed back until she wears one, as it's put under the same category as having a short skirt. Where do we stand with this? Does it come under uniform issues? I'm not really sure what they're saying she can't come back for rule wise.

I'm of bigger boobage, and I know that when I wear cotton shirts, the material strains/gapes over the widest part of my bust, especially with movement. From certain angles, you would be able to see my breast tissue if I was not wearing a bra, camisole etc. Perhaps this is happening with OP's daughter?

Either way, there are plenty of alternatives that would be comfortable eg non-wired, sports, bandeau styles.

It's a state school and it isn't an academy

Could it be a school in UK? Local schools all broke up on Wednesday this week, but OP seems to say there's more school to come next week?

Where did I say there is more school next week?

If there's a problem it's with the see-through uniform shirt, not your daughter's decision not to wear a bra. At secondary school I wore a jumper all through the summer because the required school shirts were so flimsy and I didn't want my bra to be visible.

Your daughter sounds very confident and content with her own body and that's something to be encouraged. I wouldn't personally go without a bra, but it's completely wrong to suggest that someone else be made to wear one. At one time it would have been equally unusual to go out without a corset or girdle, but we've hopefully moved on from that!

op it will change the shape plenty and you know it will
Wearing a vest will not make an ounce of difference to the shape of her breasts under a school shirt!

I do my daily exercise braless and I wear a D cup. They bounce a bit but that doesn't cause me any difficulty. Before I had kids I was a B cup and my boobs couldn't bounce if I wanted them to.

Past caring any more!

Please be your child's mother.

Your school is obviously begging you or else it will take other action. FGS. It's not that hard! Guide your DD properly and help her find a solution that works LIKE WE ALL DO.

I mostly don't wear a bra, including in the big corporate office I work in. I've stood on stage in front of an audience and spoken, all with no bra. No one's ever mentioned it. I'm an A-cup, and my knees mean I don't run anyway. There are a couple of tops I wouldn't wear without a bra - thin material and quite low-cut, with a tendency to gape at times. I also wear one for my yoga class, mostly in case we do an inverted pose and I'm wearing a looser top which would fall when I'm upside down.

If your daughter has researched the pros and cons of bra-wearing and has stuck to her decision, then I would support her. I don't think there's any problem with just saying to friends she finds bras uncomfortable - obviously if she were running round shouting about it, that would be a different matter!

If she's avoiding sports because she's not comfortable running and jumping, then she does need support for that at least. (Breast-wise, obviously. No bra can magic away discomfort in the form of breathlessness and being hot and sweaty!) Different styles of bra might be more comfortable than what she's tried already. If she's fully active in classes anyway then fine. (I don't mean swimming - presumably she only misses that once a month anyway.)

I too would want to know why the school is being so insistent. If they've got a valid reason, (and because "everyone does, it's just expected" is not a valid reason,) then bad luck for your daughter. But if it's because of sexist assumptions and expectations, then I'd fight it, and also be questioning them about other expectations they have around how boys and girls should act, and how this might be holding some of them back. Unconcious bias and all that - what's really going on, not what their policies say should be happening. Even if it's in the rules - rules can be changed, if they don't make sense.

(As far as I remember, our rules said if you wear a bra, it should be white or flesh-coloured - we had white blouses.)

I am 38dd and don't always wear a bra out - it's never occurred to me that I am breaking any rules here!.

I make sure that my top isn't see through (if it is I wear a vest underneath but other than that I don't see that it's any one else's business what goes on under there?!

I have excersized, including running - been through 10 pregnancies (6 children) 6 sets of breastfeeding and god knows what else without having any issue....

I don't understand the obsession with support for people who are comfortable without!

i have 5 Dds and if when they are older they choose not to wear bras that surely up to them - I would tell the school that you will not be forcing her to wear clothing she finds uncomfortable.

i couldnt get worked up about a kid going braless, what would be worrying me if i were you op is how shes very vocal to stop being bullied, yet shes only vocal to her friends, so shes afraid her friends will be the bullies. maybe shes not as confident as you think and needs some gentle investigating? especially with the school asking if she has a female to speak to, how could they not know she has a mum?

If I were the op I would be concerned that my 'popular' Dd feels the need to be vocal about not wearing a bra to her friends incase they bully her.

Either she has shit friends, she isn't popular but pretending she is and you have no idea what's really going on with her and her friends or she is incredibly insecure.

Those things would concern me.

I'm really sure the school couldn't care less whether she was wearing a bra or a vest. Perhaps the issue is the top is undone at the top (polo shirt) or riding up, or if it's a shirt it's straining open.

If friends are remarking on the bra-lessness and the school has taken up the issue the girls' breasts must be a) pretty ginormous and b) on show. As I said earlier, I asked dd about this and she said she only slightly notices in PE what underwear people have on and normally she'd have no idea if they had on a bra or not.

Jackie, you seem determined she should get her tits out! Where has Jackie ACTUALLY said that the op's dd should "get her tits out" Why are YOU so hung up on women covering themselves under several layers? Do you also have a problem with women breastfeeding in public? Aside from which, she is actually wearing a shirt, so no "tits" are out at all.

I was mortified for the girl in a normal school shirt with nipples clearly showing, very embarrassed for her. Your embarrassment doesn't matter here. The op's dd is happy not wearing a bra, so the situation you describe would only be about your body hangups.

Not wearing a bra or something under a thin white shirt is inappropriate According to which law?

Do any of you remember what it is like at High School? How the boys treat the girls? Well, I went to a high school where the boys were pretty respectful, to be fair. It was the girls who were the problem, and they never actually commented on bras/boobs. Still, perhaps in this example, we should tackle the boys behaviour, not the girls...

So if her nipples are on view due to the thinness of her shirt then technically it is a public order issue, and one that, however ridiculous, could have the police called to deal with it Have you seen a red carpet event recently? Many celebrities (and non) go braless in sheer tops. I have NEVER seen one arrested for doing so. If the police don't arrest grown women for being braless, they sure as hell aren't going to be bothered by a child going bra less!!

I cannot understand why the OP is objecting to her daughter wearing something to cover her nipples The op isn't objecting. It's her daughter who doesn't want to. This isn't a mum pushing her views onto her child, this is a child deciding herself that she doesn't want to wear something that she doesn't have to.

FreedomIsInPeril I didn't say the police would be called, merely that they could be. The offence would be "breach of the peace" which isn't legaly defined. Do you think magistrate might view a 14 year old girl exposing her breasts to teenage boys as a breach of the peace? Do you think that might be what the school are trying hard not to say? You are DELUDED if you think not wearing a bra under clothes constitutes breach of the peace. This is the funniest sentence on here....How the hell is the dd here exposing herself to anyone? SHE IS WEARING A SHIRT!!!

School is for learning and getting her head down at work How does not wearing a bra prevent you from learning!?

Please be your child's mother. Your school is obviously begging you or else it will take other action. FGS. It's not that hard! Guide your DD properly and help her find a solution that works LIKE WE ALL DO. I think op is doing a grand job. Her dd is a confident girl who doesn't feel the need to double layer her boobs for the sake of the feelings of those around her. She has the confidence to be who she is, and does so! If others don't like that, tough. The fact that many people (and women, no less) on this thread think she should wear a bra says more about them, than it does the dd, or her mother.

This thread is HILARIOUS!

Some people are deluded! School needs to leave OPs dds underwear choices to OPs dd! All these posts about nipples are ridiculous - boys have nipples too and most pupils manage not to be distracted by them I'm sure!

Op I would contact education at your local council and ask how to proceed in September regarding the schools attempts to exclude your dd.

Good luck.

So I've shown this thread to DD(18) who just finished school in June and she thinks it's hilarious. she doesn't wear a bra 95% of the time, just doesn't really like them.
She has a huge collection of styles, colours etc but most of the time is braless, she's about a 34C I'd guess.
If school had sent her home everytime she hadn't worn one she's have spent most of the last 2yrs sitting at home.
It hasn't interferred in her learning or doing her exams.........she doesn't wear one at home or when she's socialising unless she's wearing something that would be hugely revealing, so it's not about being an exhibitionist it's about comfort..........she just doesn't find them comfortable and I would never have forced her to wear one if it had become an issue in school.

But presumably, mandi, the school didn't notice and it was not an issue. As I've said repeatedly, dd says lots of girls don't wear bras at school. No one notices or cares.

The point is that in this case the school has noticed . Is it that it is just this one school that objects to a girl going bra-less, or is it that she is somehow attracting attention?

They knew when she did P.E. on the 3 or 4 times she actually did P.E. but it was never made any kind of issue of. Her teacher asked her if she'd forgotten her bra, she said she didn't wear one as she felt there were uncomfortable, her teacher said ok, everyone moved on.
And her friends knew she didn't wear one, she didn't announce it or anything, someone was complaining about a new bra and DD said she didn't wear them as she hated them, no big deal

OP - a vest won't change the shape of her breasts and may not provide her with any more support. For me, a stretchy vest when I am not wearing a bra does make a difference to how comfortable I feel because it stops my breasts moving so much (which I can find slightly painful when running etc). It also provides more structure than I imagine a school shirt would, because it is tighter so holds me in more. But somebody with a size C cup may not even need that.

I suppose it is just another option to offer your daughter if the school shirts are indeed slightly flimsy and don't provide support. But she may not need it. I think the school is being ridiculous, but I do think it is worth talking to your daughter about her options because she may find that as her breasts grow she needs more support than she currently has, especially in PE.

Bras really shouldn't be uncomfortable. It's fine if your daughter doesn't want to wear one, but I do wonder if she just hasn't been shopping for the right ones. Even some non-bra wearers want to have a couple of bras available so they can wear certain clothes occasionally.

I was in town yesterday, and thinking about this thread - what is more noticeable than no bra is ill-fitting bras and bras which show outside of clothing, like a normal bra with a boob-tube style top. Also boys whose trousers waistband is halfway down their arsed.

How does not wearing a bra prevent you from learning!?

I wonder that, too. In my experience, wearing comfortable clothes and not caring what others think gives you way more time and concentrating for learning than dressing to impress others and being distracted by uncomfortable clothes.

Are you in the UK? It was the last day of term?