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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

DD's refusing to wear a bra, her Head of Year is saying she isn't allowed at school.

999 replies

EmmelineW · 21/07/2016 15:40

DD is 14 (Yr 9) she tried a bra at 12, hated it and has refused to wear one since. She did try a sports bra, which she wore a couple of times in the day but now refuses and would only wear for PE. She's very confident and popular, so it hasn't ever caused any teasing (she normally makes a joke and is very vocal about not wearing one, she says that if she wasn't, she would be bullied because of it).

She had PE today, which was the first lesson she refused to wear her sports bra, she was told to not take part by her PE teacher - her PE teacher is very 'down with the kids' and mentioned it to her privately.

I would just like to say, previously to this, I was called in to make sure that she had a female role model to talk to about periods/bras as it had come to their attention, that was all cleared up.

Head of Year sent her home today because of it and said she isn't allowed back until she wears one, as it's put under the same category as having a short skirt. Where do we stand with this? Does it come under uniform issues? I'm not really sure what they're saying she can't come back for rule wise.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
Dutchcourage · 23/07/2016 18:47

op tell her to wear a vest and to stop bringing attention to it.

If she doesn't want to wear a bra - fine. She can let them swing free after school. School is for learning and getting her head down at work - it's not the time and place to be challenging the school or making a statement.

You are supposed to be the adult here. Tell her to get a vest on and save this fight for another time. The school have asked her to sort it out so just do it. Her education is more important than her fondness of free tit time. She fight this fight in uni when there are more like minded folk.

Also yes it would be lovely if the young males in her class were not distracted by this, yes it's immature to gorp and stare - but really, is this the time to make a stand? Every one just needs to get on with their bloody work.

GladAllOver · 23/07/2016 18:48

Do you think magistrate might view a 14 year old girl exposing her breasts to teenage boys as a breach of the peace?

How ridiculous can you get?
She is NOT exposing any part of her breasts. They are fully covered by a uniform shirt which her mother says does not expose them.

Scaredycat3000 · 23/07/2016 18:51

OP, support boom boom your daughter in what she is happy with, be it helping her comply or kicking off big time with the school, I'd bet they are breaking discrimination laws, or finding a compromise. I'd be more concerned about the long term effects of forcing her into something she's not happy with. Good chance to have a chat about why some things are socially acceptable, why and if it matters. Both me and OH have been told to grow/cut our hair as our parents didn't find our hair length socially acceptable Hmm
I'd love not to be able to wear a bra, I could hold a whole stationary cupboard under mine!

dottydee3 · 23/07/2016 18:55

Sorry to jump in on this thread but practically speaking are you planning to appeal the decision? And also I think you need to be putting in a complaint.

Dutchcourage · 23/07/2016 18:56

She is not exposing them ffs Hmm

I'd view this as not as a feminism issue but as school issue.

Schools have the last say on
Hair cuts
Shoe style
Make up
Coats
Skirt length
Tie length
Mobile phones
religious clothing, jewellery ect..

You always have to roll over and take it eventually as this is their call even if you think it stinks.

This can be rectified easily all she has to do is wear a bloody vest when she goes back. What a load of nonsence Hmm

Original poster
EmmelineW · 23/07/2016 18:58

Like I've asked, how would a vest change the shape of her braless breasts?

OP posts:
MuffyTheUmpireSlayer · 23/07/2016 19:00

OP I know you said you don't want to fight the school but I think you're going to have to. They cannot dictate whether any girl or woman wears a bra or not. All of the excuses PP are giving are frankly ridiculous and not even worth responding to.

I would say send her to school in September as braless as in July and see what their reaction is. They might want the fight less than you do and just drop it. If they don't, take it up with the governers, complain, appeal, do Daily Mail sad face if you have to! just don't let them get away with it!

AnecdotalEvidence · 23/07/2016 19:12

if her nipples are on view due to the thinness of her shirt then technically it is a public order issue, and one that, however ridiculous, could have the police called to deal with it
Utter bollocks.
It can never possibly be a public order offense for a girl to not wear a bra under a completely opaque top.
There is no flesh on display here!

Zame · 23/07/2016 19:15

Id be asking the school to outline clearly exactly their objections to a female going bra less. Hopefully they'll be ashamed when they have to list exactly why female breasts offend them. You can then explain your opposite view point to her, that she has every right to go bra less if that's what she wants.
That way your daughter has both points of view and can decide how to proceed from there. You can assure her that whichever decision she makes you'll back her up but let her know clearly what will have to happen in each scenario. Like, if she wants to carry on not wearing a bra, you'll have to complain to governors etc and take it as far as you need to. Or move schools. If she chooses to then wear a bra or a cami top or whatever then she will stay at her current school and nothing changes except she will be uncomfortable.
The school are dickheads in my opinion.

MyMurphy · 23/07/2016 19:16

The Op is obviously sticking to what she thinks is right, so let her get on with it. (waits for sad face in Daily Mail tomorrow)

Original poster
EmmelineW · 23/07/2016 19:19

MyMurphy you're not answering my question

OP posts:
TwatbadgingCuntfuckery · 23/07/2016 19:23

OP do not force your daughter to wear a bra. Send her back in September as she is. Braless and happy.

Ask the school for clarification as to why she must wear a bra. The 'because I said so/its the rules' thing, when its not in the rules won't cut it. With clarification from them you will have more ammunition.

Ask them via email or letter so you have a physical record of any reasons. Avoid phonecalls because you wont be able to back up the claims so easily unless you record them.

Also, that school uniform list is so very sexist and discriminatory IMO for both genders. By any chance is she attending an academy? They have different rules as far as I can remember so a complaint would be difficult to take to the local authority because they are controlled via different non profits.

Once you have your responses I would make a complaint based on the discriminatory nature of their uniform policy and the sexist view your daughter must where a bra when male students aren't forced to subject their own breast tissue to uncomfortable bindings and I would question whether female teachers would be forced to conform to this rule too. Do this both to the head teacher and the schools board of governors. I would make it very clear that whatever goes on under a school uniform is non of the schools business. It is highly intrusive to your DD and wholly inappropriate. I would be goady and ask the school if they plan on doing 'bra checks' to make sure every one is conforming to the rule.

If you have no luck with the school over their sexist rule then you do have other avenues to shame them for it but of course that might not be what you want. Talking media, Sharing it openly on FB here etc

As for the swimming lessons. Has she been given grief over her choice of sanpro? if so that will help you with your complaint with regards to her being discriminated against because she is a female and making choices based on her own comfort and health needs that do not infringe on anyone else.

I agree though with posters about the sports bra and I would recommend you talk it through again with her why wearing a bra for sports is best practice to prevent muscle strain, back and neck pain and chaffing of the nipples and underbreast when doing mid to high intensity sports. For 1 hour at a time I think your DD could manage this and agree the school should recommend she wears one to prevent injury. The rest of the time however. They can do one. None of their business.

GerdaLovesLili · 23/07/2016 19:28

AnecdotalEvidence You are absolutely right. If the top is opaque then there is absolutely no issue at all, and the daughter is perfectly within her rights to not wear a bra.

Dutchcourage · 23/07/2016 19:29

op it will change the shape plenty and you know it will. Get one thats stretchy.

It's all a bit attention seeking - especially with the op just giving one liners now.

FrameyMcFrame · 23/07/2016 19:32

I'm wondering whether this would be an issue Mumsnet would be willing to campaign on. There's been a lot about it in the news recently.

confusionis · 23/07/2016 19:34

So many issues in the world, and this completely non issue creates such a frenzy.

Bambambini · 23/07/2016 19:38

"Who on thread who is C-cup or larger, and would be quite happy to run around playing netball for an hour or run 4 long laps around the school's biggest playing field completely braless? You can do it in the dark with no audience/blind netball partners. This is just a question about how your body feels during sport."

I could have, easily. And wearing a bib totally covers you so other people would have no clue. I have small boobs, can't hold a pencil under but still a c cup.

TwatbadgingCuntfuckery · 23/07/2016 19:46

framey I agree. So many schools have implemented sexist rules esp about female bodies. Headlines are in the pics because people don't always do clickly links.

most recent one though was over boys being forced to wear trousers in hot weather so they turned up in skirts. metro.co.uk/2016/07/22/schoolboys-excluded-for-wearing-shorts-on-hottest-day-don-skirts-instead-6022299/

this article in the independent is good to see though. Its aim was to be trans inclusive but of course applies to all children www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/school-boys-skirts-uniform-gender-neutral-a7077701.html

DD's refusing to wear a bra, her Head of Year is saying she isn't allowed at school.
DD's refusing to wear a bra, her Head of Year is saying she isn't allowed at school.
DD's refusing to wear a bra, her Head of Year is saying she isn't allowed at school.
DownstairsMixUp · 23/07/2016 19:48

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ at the poster's request.

MuffyTheUmpireSlayer · 23/07/2016 19:50

confusionis it really is not a non-issue. It is one isolated incident, yes, but it feeds into a much bigger issue about the policing and also the "purpose" of the female body, which again feed into much bigger issue about the male gaze and male entitlement.

Only1scoop · 23/07/2016 19:52

No way they need support

I wouldn't want to be doing sports without my scaffold on

GeorgeTheThird · 23/07/2016 19:55

To answer your question, Op. Most vests sold are cotton Lycra. I get mine from Primark for a couple of quid. Wearing one squishes the breasts down a bit and gives a more streamlined look. If you have small breasts, which I do.

I wear my vests over a flesh coloured bra and under a linen t shirt. Very neat looking.

confusionis · 23/07/2016 20:11

Muffy, I'm sorry that you think this is such a big issue. Perhaps you need to open your eyes to the greater world out there and realise the bigger issues that exist in the world
As for the parents who chose to send their kids to school in skirts. Did they feel better once they had those headlines? Or did they actually want to bring about change? because really, the only thing they did was teach their kids that its ok to disrespect authority and not bother with any rules they dont like the sound off. Real change is rarely brought about by such tactics. I totally agree with the point about the skirts/shorts sexism being wrong, but this is just sensationalism.

MuffyTheUmpireSlayer · 23/07/2016 20:18

confusion my eyes are very much open to the wider issues of the world, thank you. Believe it or not, issues are often interlinked. And those that are not linked with others do not make other big issues completely disappeare. Perhaps it is you that needs to do a bit of eye opening here.

NotCitrus · 23/07/2016 20:52

Is it a private or state school?
If private, probably no choice, but if it's a state school this must surely be an 'illegal exclusion' and I'd ask the LA for advice (assuming England - other parts of the UK may be different hence people asking where you live).

I could easily have done sport without a bra when I was a C-cup. A 30C is the same volume of breast as a 34A which I bet no-one would be thinking must be restrained!