Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Original poster

DD's refusing to wear a bra, her Head of Year is saying she isn't allowed at school.

999 replies

EmmelineW · 21/07/2016 15:40

DD is 14 (Yr 9) she tried a bra at 12, hated it and has refused to wear one since. She did try a sports bra, which she wore a couple of times in the day but now refuses and would only wear for PE. She's very confident and popular, so it hasn't ever caused any teasing (she normally makes a joke and is very vocal about not wearing one, she says that if she wasn't, she would be bullied because of it).

She had PE today, which was the first lesson she refused to wear her sports bra, she was told to not take part by her PE teacher - her PE teacher is very 'down with the kids' and mentioned it to her privately.

I would just like to say, previously to this, I was called in to make sure that she had a female role model to talk to about periods/bras as it had come to their attention, that was all cleared up.

Head of Year sent her home today because of it and said she isn't allowed back until she wears one, as it's put under the same category as having a short skirt. Where do we stand with this? Does it come under uniform issues? I'm not really sure what they're saying she can't come back for rule wise.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
JackieAndHyde4eva · 23/07/2016 13:43

So she either homeschools next year or finds a way around it... Her choice!

She'll continue dressing as she has been as the school havent a leg to stand on.

AnotherTimeMaybe · 23/07/2016 13:53

She'll continue dressing as she has been as the school havent a leg to stand on.
Yeah why not! That attitude is great if it's not your dd we are talking about!

JackieAndHyde4eva · 23/07/2016 13:54

Well its an option. Maybe OP's DD will choose a different one. But its an option nonetheless.

Ouriana · 23/07/2016 14:06

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

flupcake · 23/07/2016 14:10

The poor girl. 14, going through puberty, making the difficult transition from girl to woman, and instead of some helpful advice and guidance she gets a load of self-righteous adults using this as some kind of men v woman debate.

Whether you like it or not, breasts are seen as sexual in our society. If you want to change that then maybe first ban pornography, raunchy music videos, Anne Summers... (Oh and get sex education as mandatory on the school curriculum rather than being optional so that teenagers learn about sex properly rather than off the internet would be a good start too).
Encouraging one 14 year old going bra-less is not going to change things.

If I was the OP I would be looking for a compromise between the school and daughter's wishes. Turning this into a big battle - who is that going to help, really? Is this really about you standing up for your daughter's wishes or wanting to get into a fight with school? Are you annoyed with them about when they called you in for the 'role model' issue before? You have only taken her for one bra-fitting - that does not seem to me to be exploring other options or giving her a wide understanding of what options are open to women once they develop breasts.

As to those who say breasts are only functional and have no sexual purpose - really? Nipples and breasts are very sensitive and cause sexual arousal in many women (admittedly not when you have mastitis!)

As for men not being asked to cover their chests - yes they do, there are many places where men are not allowed to go shirtless.

Ouriana · 23/07/2016 14:37

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

flumpybear · 23/07/2016 14:39

Another flumpybear I'm a B and you can tell!!! Can I have some of your E please!!!*
You can tell with me too* but yes I'd gladly be a d cup again or a c cup please!!! Would happily give up a few sizes for you!!
Preferable ending with pert and nice shape please lol

CatThiefKeith · 23/07/2016 14:49

Am I the only person laughing at the irony of a poster called 'primitivemom' having a fit of the vapours over women not wearing bra's?

I'm fairly sure actual primitive moms didn't have access to Bravissimo. Grin

JackieAndHyde4eva · 23/07/2016 14:55

Grin cat excellent point!

Emergencyigloo · 23/07/2016 15:03

Put a crop vest top on instead of a bra.

If daughter is making some kind of teenage rebellion feminist stance on it by exclaiming to audiences she doesn't wear a bra at school, she's only drawing further attention to herself.

Perhaps that's the point.

gettingtherequickly · 23/07/2016 15:06

Why on earth did they think she hadn't got a female role model? That's nothing to do with a bra, is it?

FWIW I would suggest that wearing appropriate underwear is important. But then I regularly have to take apprentices aside (male and female), to explain what we mean by business attire.

ChocChocPorridge · 23/07/2016 15:10

Even if it is the point, so what?

What the hell are adults doing inspecting kids underwear?

When pregnant (and for a long time after) I couldn't handle underwires, so I went around braless or with one of those thick-tights style crop-tops, or with a soft cup nursing bra - none of which are in anyway adequate to keep my boobs under control, but that's fine, I'm not under any obligation to, and neither is OP's daughter.

Vest or similar for see-through shirts (as should the boys be encouraged to wear - either translucent clothing is bad, or it isn't - doesn't matter what's under it), nothing more needed - it's entirely up to her.

Rather than compare to pants, if it's wobble that's upsetting you, perhaps all boys should be required to wear tight y-fronts, no baggy boxers allowed? Sounds ridiculous doesn't it? See, same for chests

LynetteScavo · 23/07/2016 15:28

This isn't about school uniform, its about what the school believe to be in the girls best interest.

ShelaghTurner · 23/07/2016 15:38

Love the irony of someone pitying the 'poor child' for getting a self righteous debate instead of advice, and then proceeding to contribute to the self righteousness.

ShelaghTurner · 23/07/2016 15:41

Oh and here's an idea manufacturers, stop making clothes specifically for teenage girls see through. Then there'd be no problem. Supposing they did this for everything? Next's new range of summer t shirts? See through. Nice top from H&M, see through. How about a nice dress for a wedding. Oh but it's see through. You wouldn't buy it would you? So why should girls be forced to wear see through uniform?

Only1scoop · 23/07/2016 15:43

What are HER reasons for not wearing one Op?

FreedomIsInPeril · 23/07/2016 15:51

If daughter is making some kind of teenage rebellion feminist stance on it by exclaiming to audiences she doesn't wear a bra at school, she's only drawing further attention to herself

And she can do that, if she wants to. Maybe she's making a feminist stand? Good for her, if so.

Adults shouldn't be talking about childrens breasts, none of you should, and neither should the school. Her body, her choice.

travailtotravel · 23/07/2016 15:53

i think my question to the school would be how they're planning to police the requirement to wear a bra. Because i would have a lot of objections about on the spot bra checking and any other approaches they might take to check this.

I'd address myself to the school immediately and ask them to specify their concerns and the above. And then just see what they say.

InfiniteCurve · 23/07/2016 16:01

My train of thought here has taken me to "Is OPs daughter the only girl in the school not wearing a bra? " Which seems unlikely to me.So will the school now be inspecting all the girls? How will that work? But if they don't ,that is clearly unfair to OPs daughter.
Is the problem breasts - in which case surely they'll need to address all those girls whose breasts are more obvious, or nipples,in which case no bras allowed which nipples might be visible through ( I've had bras in the past that my nipples were visible through,in my boring life of wearing the simplest plainest bras available)
Uniform school underwear? I am older - when I was at secondary school we had uniform knickers,but never bras!! ( I do not think this is a practice we should return to!!)

midcenturymodern · 23/07/2016 16:12

Regardless of whether boobs should be sexualised or not, they are. So if she was wearing a see-through chiffon top or just walking around topless, the school has a point

But she isn't. She's wearing a cotton shirt. I guess I'd be making sure it wasn't a cheap thin one. That's as far as I'd go

^This. If^ you can't see her tits through her shirt then she goes back to school in September and it's up to the school to prove she isn't wearing a bra. I'm struggling to see how they can if you can't actually tell. However, I wasn't allowed a bra and I know for a fact that my tits were very clearly visible through my john lewis regulation white blouse. Mine were massive though, my first bra was a 30E.

Given that some parents don't allow girls to wear crop tops at the top end of primary school as they are allegedly sexualising children then I don't see how a secondary school can make bras, and consequently bra inspections, compulsory for girls a few months older.

FreedomIsInPeril · 23/07/2016 16:20

This isn't about school uniform, its about what the school believe to be in the girls best interest

It really isn't about her best interests at all. Her best interest it to choose her own underwear requirements. It's not about that.

primitivemom · 23/07/2016 16:44

Oh so grow up cat and Jackie! My user name is not the topic of discussion Hmm

RhodaBull · 23/07/2016 16:53

I just asked dd - just finished year 8 - what her opinion was. She said she wouldn't know who was or who wasn't wearing a bra. When getting changed for PE she has noticed some of her friends wearing camisole tops. The school uniform is quite thick polo shirts.

In the OP the telling bits are the fact that she says the dd "is very vocal about not wearing one" and that she herself was called in because of the female role model issue. It's clear the whole thing is about more than a bra.

Incidentally, when I worked in US a man in a see-through shirt would have been persona non grata. Sweaty armpits and visible chest hair were definite no-nos. Men always wore "under vests" (short-sleeved white t-shirts). In Europe, too, the shirt only thing is not done in offices.

Original poster
EmmelineW · 23/07/2016 17:01

I'm telling you there isn't anything else, you're welcome to believe/not believe me, but I know the facts.

I don't know, I'm on the fence. How can I force her to wear something that she doesn't have to? It isn't in their uniform rules, so I kind of wish I had refused to pick her up! Absolutely don't want a fight with the school...

OP posts:
VestalVirgin · 23/07/2016 17:02

It really isn't about her best interests at all. Her best interest it to choose her own underwear requirements. It's not about that.

Exactly. Some people here are acting as if the option of wearing a bra was never presented to her. Which is not the case. She knows that she could wear a bra, and decided against it.

What the "but she should wear a bra or she will be bullied/her breasts will sag/boys will sexually molest her" posters here are saying is that they consider this girl too stupid to make her own decisions and think that her informed decision to not wear a bra is wrong, wrong, wrong.

That's rather insulting.