DD's refusing to wear a bra, her Head of Year is saying she isn't allowed at school.

[EmmelineW]

DD is 14 (Yr 9) she tried a bra at 12, hated it and has refused to wear one since. She did try a sports bra, which she wore a couple of times in the day but now refuses and would only wear for PE. She's very confident and popular, so it hasn't ever caused any teasing (she normally makes a joke and is very vocal about not wearing one, she says that if she wasn't, she would be bullied because of it).

She had PE today, which was the first lesson she refused to wear her sports bra, she was told to not take part by her PE teacher - her PE teacher is very 'down with the kids' and mentioned it to her privately.

I would just like to say, previously to this, I was called in to make sure that she had a female role model to talk to about periods/bras as it had come to their attention, that was all cleared up.

Head of Year sent her home today because of it and said she isn't allowed back until she wears one, as it's put under the same category as having a short skirt. Where do we stand with this? Does it come under uniform issues? I'm not really sure what they're saying she can't come back for rule wise.

If I were you I'd start another thread in the Secondary Education section about challenging an illegal exclusion, a state school cannot simply tell your daughter not to return in September fgs. There are procedures they must go through and you will be able to appeal their decision, your thread here has become massively derailed and contains very little that would be of any use to when speaking to the school.

*Breasts don't just have a single function. They have a secondary, but important, function. That is, to attract the attention of males to promote the female's chances of breeding. No matter how loud you shout, MN, that is the plain fact.

During the few years just after puberty the instinct to make sexual contact is very strong, for young women and for men. In this period, they are in secondary school. They are still legally children but they have adult desires, often unformed, often unexpected. Sometimes the nature and extent of the sexual interest in each other is embarrassing for them and for others around them, for example, for young people who have not yet passed through puberty, or for those who, quite reasonably, just want such things to be private.

Saying this is not so, or ought not to be so, won't make it go away. It isn't 'sexualisation'. Its nature, the way it is before society gets to it.*

Excellent post by timelytess there.

A 14yr old not wearing a bra is not a safeguarding issue as I can see. I certainly wouldn't think it was report worthy.

There are some things that may seem simple, but when added together with other small issues may paint a picture. A girl going to the nurse asking for sanitary products is a non issue, but a girl that goes each day of her period every month may be a red flag because someone is not supporting the child by buying the products for her. A child that constantly has body odour could be just a person with BO, or there could be hygiene issues. A girl choosing to go braless is one thing, but if she is developing and still not wearing a bra, it could indicate that the parents are not buying them for her. In the OP's case, there have obviously been enough of these flags in the past for them to raise them. Teachers have a duty to raise these issues if they feel it is necessary.

Here you go OP - government guidelines on uniform policy for schools
www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/514978/School_Uniform_Guidance.pdf

There is an argument to be made that requiring girls to wear a bra is discriminatory (based on these guidelines )

1. go through the uniform policy for your school. What does it say that might cover underwear?
2. if nothing under uniform they might try to invoke something under a more general discipline code! Read everything published on the web site.
3. is the school an academy? Local authority? Church? You are going to have to deal with the governing body.

Good luck - as has been said - shocked at some of the replies here, what underwear she chooses to wear is up to her IMO.

Jackie You absolute hussy. Weren't you worried about distracting the poor chaps from important men thoughts?

well there was a random increase in car accidents and men walking into lamposts but i thought it was just the heat.

It must be very difficult to find a bra of exactly your skin tone (I certainly never have!). Therefore a bra will always be visible. In fact, a nipple is probably closer to skin colour than any bra and hence less visible. No more so than noticeable than a boy's nipples anyway, surely, since they are the same colour.

In the same way a mans chest is different from his cock, balls and anus primitive.

Panda, not buying that sorry.

Would you let her go out with a skirt and no pants? Same thing really and NOT appropriate!!!!

Not the same thing at all as breasts are not genitals. Did you study biology at school?

Men don't have sexualised body parts on their chests do they?

I'd rather not see anyone's nipples to be honest stressed but I don't think it's true that nipples are less visible at all.

Girls shirts are often tailored and fitted and tighter on breasts hence visible nipples. Boys shirts are often looser hence probably not that visible nipples.

You can get nude bras from pretty much anywhere they're certainly more discreet than white.

BeMorePanda it seems you can't reason with an illogical argument

Don't they? Many men I know get very turned on by their nipples being stimulated.

Jackie, whether you like it or not, breasts are just as sexual to men and boys as all the rest! What planet are you on?

Whether you like it or not, and agree with it or not. Breasts are/have been sexualised. No amount of non bra wearing will change that.

That was very diplomatic of you stressed

Why is the world so afraid of a female nipple??

Exactly little.

many bras are designed to hyper sexualise breasts. And are also very visible through clothing.

No amount of non bra wearing will change that.

Um, yes it would. If everyone stopped wearing bras (not that I think they should have to - women should be free to make their own decisions) then they would have to be stopped being seen as sexual, otherwise men wouldn't be able to leave the house according to some posters. I actually have slightly more faith in men.

Panda, at least they'd be fucking covered!

Men don't have sexualised body parts on their chests do they?

I find mens' chest sexy. I have chosen to sexualise them. Therefore are a sexualised body part. So they now must be invisible to all women. Men must wear bras.

Maybe you're a little naive OP. If you were to read any of the social media sites teenagers use - like Ask.fm, although that one might be old hat by now - perhaps you'd be telling your daughter to just wear a bra. To cover up her private areas adequately like we've been telling our children, male and female, since they were small - presumably? This is what the teachers are concerned about.

Maybe I'm a little raw because today I was followed in an almost deserted supermarket by a man. Im in my 40s, and I haven't had anything happen like this since I was 10. I was on my own. All I could hear was his whistle as he followed me, always a step behind, from the baking baking aisle, to biscuits, to dairy, then to pay. Unless he was also making a chocolate dessert, he was a creep out to scare me. Why did he do that?

I guess I'm saying don't make your DD a more obvious target. I'm sorry if I'm projecting. But some males are really urgh.

Perhaps they look like this?

Right so we all go braless and all of a sudden men pay them no attention whatsoever, the media stops using them to sell whatever?

I can't see it. Sorry.