DD's refusing to wear a bra, her Head of Year is saying she isn't allowed at school.

[EmmelineW]

DD is 14 (Yr 9) she tried a bra at 12, hated it and has refused to wear one since. She did try a sports bra, which she wore a couple of times in the day but now refuses and would only wear for PE. She's very confident and popular, so it hasn't ever caused any teasing (she normally makes a joke and is very vocal about not wearing one, she says that if she wasn't, she would be bullied because of it).

She had PE today, which was the first lesson she refused to wear her sports bra, she was told to not take part by her PE teacher - her PE teacher is very 'down with the kids' and mentioned it to her privately.

I would just like to say, previously to this, I was called in to make sure that she had a female role model to talk to about periods/bras as it had come to their attention, that was all cleared up.

Head of Year sent her home today because of it and said she isn't allowed back until she wears one, as it's put under the same category as having a short skirt. Where do we stand with this? Does it come under uniform issues? I'm not really sure what they're saying she can't come back for rule wise.

Forcing teenage girls into strapoing up their breasts so boys won't maje comments is 

I don't know why you're sounding shocked - its a certain fact of life that teen boys are at some point, rather interested in the female form. I'm a secondary schoolteacher and despite my efforts to promote equality and respect, too many boys aren't getting this message/upbringing at home.

Couple this with the fact that many of our DC are getting their sex education via free porn on the Internet and we're walking blindly into hot-water here. I've had to deal with too many situations to mention where boys are behaving inappropriately towards girls in their classes, at some points in terrifyingly predatory ways - a girl being bra-less would be the talking point (at the very least).

Yes, we absolutely need things to change but one schoolgirl going bra less isn't going to be the catalyst that our society needs. As a Mum, I'd want to protect her from the guaranteed sexual attention that she'll be receiving from her school mates.

Of course, I can only comment
About the comprehensive school that I work in.

OP, your DD will need to become used to societal rules at some point. This is one of them. Some of the rules are greyer than others, but they are usually there for a reason. As women, we generally don't love having to wear bras, but we do because that's just the way it is. I know I wouldn't want a heap of boys and men focused on my nipples all the time, in any case. Unless she wants attention?

You can buy stick on nipple shields of that is the issue I would give her nipple tassels and really put the cat among the pigeons

I think this is less about wearing a bras than about how vocal she is about not wearing a bras.

It's her choice whether she wears one but why is it necessary for her to constantly broadcast it to her classmates.

It is attention seeking and possibly disruptive. That is what you need to be tackling.

Oh my goodness! That is disgraceful. Women do not have to wear a bra!!! That amounts to sexual discrimination.Many women choose not to wear a bra.I would be making a formal complaint.

Blue would you really though?
Genuine question.

I think they want her to out one on so she stops talking about it.

She should be wearing one for sport. Not for anyone else but for herself. Other than that, it's up to her.

But I suspect she talks about it all the time for attention. Not so she doesn't get bullied. Most Teenagers like a bit of attention. This marks her out as different.

I have read the full thread and agree that the real issue is probably because the op's d has drawn too much attention to herself and may have boundary issues. It seems less about bras than behaviour and the school is using the bra request to try to moderate the behaviour.

As an aside my DD is a petite size 8. She has been generous of boobage since year 6. She's 18 now and the only person ever to comment was a mother in the junior school playground silly cow. Probably nobody has commented because dd is modest and doesn't draw attention to it. I have heard from mothers of some of ds's friend that they have ben awed upon meeting her - dd's response - a nonchalant eyeroll and teenaged ffs. She'd rather people paid attention to her brain and her well constructed arguments about things she's passionate about.

I think if the op's daughter moderates her behaviour the issue will go away. There's a whom summer to work on it and hopefully it will have faded from everyone's radar in September and you and your DD need to make sure it stays off the radar from now on. They are breasts, we all have hem, they are all different, we all view them differently and have our own comfort zones. Your dd needs to make sure she doesn't overstep the mark vis a vis the comfort zones of others in future.

Good post Roses

For goodness sake just tell her to wear a bra, we all have to. She'll have to learn far greater lessons about what is socially acceptable in order to be a success in life and hold down a job.
Sounds like an attention seeker to me.

To those outraged at this girl being asked to wear a bra (presumably to ensure her boobs are not on display through a blouse top), where should the 'right' to wear what you like end in a school environment... If a confident boy decided to walk around in tight trousers with no pants parading his frequent teenage erections for all to see, would that be ok? What a girl going knicker less and not being modest in how she arranges her legs? Is that an appropriate display of self-expression? Is it reasonable to expect those encountering such exhibitionism to simply avert their eyes?

The bra-less situation here is clearly not as extreme as the examples I've mentioned, but definitely related. Unless you agree that unfettered exhibitionism is ok at school, the line needs to be drawn somewhere... Drawing that line to include girls not flaunting their breasts and nipples through see-through White blouses seems entirely appropriate to me, and is simply a recognition of our perfectly reasonable societal norms.

I went to school with someone like this. She was proud of not wearing or owning a bra.

We all knew but didn't need to know iyswim. I didn't care whether she did or not but she was so vocal about it she had to tell everyone.

I'm wondering if it's the general attitude of the child, why does she feel the need to let everyone know she's not wearing a bra!? Is she flaunting herself and distracting the boys who are turned on by her lack of bra. Perhaps it's her getting the kick out of it!?
If a child doesn't wear a bra and it's not noticed that's one thing, but if it's clear lots of people are distracted by her presentation and I wonder if this is compelled by a sexualised attitude - perhaps it's a bigger picture that, for the sake of a bra or a cami top may diffuse something that's sparked off st school?

Bras are a bragging point among 14yo girls, ie "who has the prettiest bra"/"where did you get that" (recurring topic of convos in the changing rooms). Someone with boobs fully visible every time would A) feel repeatedly excluded & B) receive from their cohort: not least because the English are ultra-uptight about anyone seeing their bodies. There's no reason the girl can't wear a basic crop top simply for modesty, crop tops deal with chaffing & soak up some sweat, too.

Being very vocal about the no-bra thing sounds like demands for people to look; that's how everyone is going to hear that.

(14yo) DD & agree that bras are great, they keep boobs manageable. Aside from the lucky A-cups, posts from the bouncy braless brigade on MN leave me .

I'm guessing she never has to run for a school bus.
She must be one hell of a confident 14yo to walk round with no bra and a white blouse in such an awkward, hormonal overloaded environment. It doesn't matter how much you teach teenage boys to be respectful they will look at her breasts.

There are a lot of Youtube videos of folk running braless. Not very respectful. It's sounds ruddy painful to me & I'm only a D cup.

'A C cup'

Then she needs to wear a bra IMO

Why does she hate it so much? Go shopping maybe and try loads of those comfy ones on. Let her choose some new underwear.

Some lovely crop top sets out there also.

would you be ok about a woman going bra less in your DH's place of work

Holy fuck! Someone actually said this ^.

I think I've woken up in Saudi Arabia.

Agree that if her school shirt is transparent, the uniform is the problem. She is perfectly entitled to decide for herself what underwear she wears ffs. Uniform not providing adequate coverage is for the school to sort out.

I'd be raging. Depressed by some of the responses on this thread.

Has OP addressed why her DD can't just wear a vest or crop top?

For goodness sake just tell her to wear a bra, we all have to. She'll have to learn far greater lessons about what is socially acceptable in order to be a success in life and hold down a job.

It is because of attitudes like yours that women are still oppressed. "We all have to" - do you actually see what you have written here? "I choose/am financially coerced to submit to oppression, so you should, too!" - do you not realize how harmful that attitude is?

I think I've woken up in Saudi Arabia.

I don't. I have always known women aren't truly liberated here. So, not a huge surprise.

It still makes me angry. They have NO right. Her breasts are covered, the same that boy's chests are covered, and that should be enough.

Genuine question: If you knew for certain how sexually charged some year groups are, how boundaries are being not just tested but literally demolished, that the sexual landscape for teenagers is now changed forever thank you porn industry and Internet would you be so single minded about your daughters going bra less at school?

I'm not asking to goad, by the way. It's genuinely asked.