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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Original poster

DD's refusing to wear a bra, her Head of Year is saying she isn't allowed at school.

999 replies

EmmelineW · 21/07/2016 15:40

DD is 14 (Yr 9) she tried a bra at 12, hated it and has refused to wear one since. She did try a sports bra, which she wore a couple of times in the day but now refuses and would only wear for PE. She's very confident and popular, so it hasn't ever caused any teasing (she normally makes a joke and is very vocal about not wearing one, she says that if she wasn't, she would be bullied because of it).

She had PE today, which was the first lesson she refused to wear her sports bra, she was told to not take part by her PE teacher - her PE teacher is very 'down with the kids' and mentioned it to her privately.

I would just like to say, previously to this, I was called in to make sure that she had a female role model to talk to about periods/bras as it had come to their attention, that was all cleared up.

Head of Year sent her home today because of it and said she isn't allowed back until she wears one, as it's put under the same category as having a short skirt. Where do we stand with this? Does it come under uniform issues? I'm not really sure what they're saying she can't come back for rule wise.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
Heidi42 · 22/07/2016 21:47

GOING NOT GONG!

Jelliebabe1 · 22/07/2016 21:47

Wow... one poster said it's not appropriate to not wear underwear! It was so hot Tuesday I went knickerless! Stuff that in your pipes underwear zealots! 😂

lalalalyra · 22/07/2016 21:48

If a school shirt is so thin that nipples/bras/crop tops/anything are visible through it then the issue is the school shirt.

I'm quite amazed that the parents of the other high school in my town haven't kicked off about the shirt. It wouldn't be classed as appropriate workwear in most offices, yet no-one bats an eyelid at it in a school.

I often go braless because I find it more comfortable, despite being big chested. However, I choose my clothing appropriately. Wearing a flimsy or see-through top when braless isn't a good idea. So if her current school shirt is see through then perhaps buying her thicker shirts for next term? Or a cami under it?

Discobabe · 22/07/2016 21:58

Many high schools specify which shirts to buy as they have the school logo on them. So the see through shirts are down to the school and not the fault of the parents purchasing them.

I struggle to find any white tops that aren't see through these days! I was only commenting on it the other day to a friend.

Notcontent · 22/07/2016 22:25

To be honest, I don't actually believe that this thread is real. I don't think women need to always wear bras - far from it - but unless you are pretty flat chested, it's just accepted to be part of what is acceptable in certain contexts - such as school or many work places. And everyone accepts that.

Original poster
EmmelineW · 22/07/2016 22:44

To be honest, you don't need to believe me. Thanks Mumsnet for sorting things out.

Her PE top is a polo top, her school uniform is a white blouse, but she has to wear that.

OP posts:
MuffyTheUmpireSlayer · 22/07/2016 22:49

Have there been any more communications with the school before breaking up for summer? I'd say stand your ground on this one, it's appalling!

FuzzyOwl · 22/07/2016 22:52

OP, why was your DD's school worried that she didn't have a female role model? And what do you class as not being "massively large chested?"

Original poster
EmmelineW · 22/07/2016 22:55

Because of the bra situation. Well, I think it's odd posting her size... She's 14.

OP posts:
FuzzyOwl · 22/07/2016 22:57

I think it is odd starting this whole thread and only sporadically replying with evasive messages!

midnightlurker · 22/07/2016 22:57

Matalan have some really comfy sports bras that are just stretchy fabric. If that helps at all.

Original poster
EmmelineW · 22/07/2016 22:58

I was out, I did say that. Then my account was blocked.

OP posts:
m0therofdragons · 22/07/2016 23:05

14 year olds vary in size (like adults). If she's a B cup then that's different to a DD cup (that I was at 14). To be honest, if it's noticeable to the school then they are right to flag it up. A fitted vest top would surely be a compromise. Just show her There's Something About Mary - I'm so paranoid I'll end up with boobs like that I'll never not wear a bra.

Original poster
EmmelineW · 22/07/2016 23:06

She's a C cup.

OP posts:
Cathaka15 · 22/07/2016 23:13

If her breasts are very visable through her top it's reasonable that she puts on a bra. We as decent people can think breasts are not sexual and are part of life. That's fine. But what the media shows a lot of our youngsters these days is the complete opposite. All you see bouncing boobies on half naked girls. Breast have been sexualised wether we like it or not. it's great that she's so confident that she can just not care and be comfortable in her own body. But she's still young and needs to learn that at certain places she needs to be appropriately dressed and follow the dress code. she can hang loose at home.

PurpleTango · 22/07/2016 23:22

There I was thinking schools have broken up for the summer. Seems I was wrong. There is always one.....

MrsMook · 22/07/2016 23:36

I went braless to work in a school earlier this week. I was wearing an empire line dress that doesn't draw particular attention to the under garments that I am or not wearing underneath. I'm a B cup.

In year 9 I was still a AA. I tended to wear some kind of bra or crop top for PE because I was the odd one out if I didn't as everyone else was more developed than me. On non PE days, I didn't tend to bother as there was no benefit to be had from wearing one. I started wearing one as routine because the lad behind me in German realised that I didn't have an outline of a bra under my shirt, and thought it would be deeply witty to call me "ironing board" with reference to the size of my chest. So at 14, I began to wear it to avoid bullying. Isn't that what we call victim blaming? I have light colouring so it wasn't obvious from the front. The lad was a prat and a few years later he managed to orchestrate his departure from the school to the glee of the rest of the year goupGrin

Bras are worn for comfort as they benefit the majority of females past puberty. They may boost confidence for some- at 16, I got my first padded bras and preferred the shape they gave me. They are not there for hygiene like pants. It's inappropriate for schools to have a blanket rule about when it is necessary to wear a bra, because there's such variety in development rates. Boys can show nipple when changing for PE. My memories of the changing room was that most girls tended to shuffle around under their t-shirts in order to avoid showing anything under the neck. Again, I took up that habit to fit in because there was nothing to hide.

At a C cup, support becomes more beneficial and there is obvious development there, but it is probably smaller than average still. It might be worth seeing if there are styles of bra/crop top that appeal more for comfort, but body confidence at that age is a precious thing, and she needs to be comfortable with her decisions.

DecaffCoffeeAndRollupsPlease · 22/07/2016 23:54

There is evidence for and against the benefits of the support of wearing a bra. I don't see how it's anything to do with the school whether she wears one or not.

Will they insist on corsets next- they are supportive after all?

PaulDacresMicroPenis · 22/07/2016 23:54

I admire your ability to respond to all of these personal attacks against you and your daughter in such a spartan, restrained manner op.

JaWellNoFine · 22/07/2016 23:55

*Sorry but there still are standards of public decorum.
*

Standards defined by men to suit men in bygone times where woman had no say. This must change! They do not get a say in this. Why can't men just get a fucking grip and why do so many many woman pander to this crap?

I am all for a bra but it's a choice.

It is so sad that women refuse to see this.

AuroraBora · 23/07/2016 00:42

Of course it's a choice.

However, is she actually a c cup? Check any of the bra intervention threads on here and you quickly realise most women are wearing the wrong bra size and are usually a larger cup size than they say they are.

C cup implies only a 3 inch difference between the measurement under the boobs and the measurement around the fullest part when bending over forward.

I am surprised she doesn't find PE with no support uncomfortable, and does she not find changing awkward with no bra for modesty?

MissoniMad · 23/07/2016 00:53

"In one universe, no-one has to wear anything they don't want to and so fucking what if it makes others uncomfortable or there are nipples poking out in class. Everyone should do what they like and let's string up the oppressors who force us into the shackles of convention. Teenaged boys are not remotely interested in or distracted by nipples or wobbling breasts. ( Jeremy Corbyn lives in this universe, incidentally.)"

^ Grin Grin Yes PP!

"In the other universe, people adjust what they wear to the social context they are in. They accept that some things make others uncomfortable or are inappropriate, and understand that if teachers are concerned enough to bother contacting home about an issue then it needs addressing."

^ I was with you up to that point PP.

"She needs to wear a bra."

^ no, she needs somebody to speak to her about these issues and explain the implications / issues surrounding bra wearing and should then be encouraged to make a mature informed decision.

WetPaint4 · 23/07/2016 00:59

Unless you're flatchested, you will draw attention to yourself not wearing a bra. When I was at school the shirts were pretty see-through so I can imagine it's clear she's not wearing one. Also, she'll regret that shit when she's older, she's still growing.

LilQueenie · 23/07/2016 01:33

Cup size means nothing. google it. a 30c is much different from a 34c. So long as she is comfortable but perhaps she should consider wearing one for PE as it may well stop her doing an injury. As for being vocal perhaps that is part of the problem. Bringing attention to herself by being vocal might not be the best idea. Do you think perhaps if she didn't bring attention to herself this way she might do so in another way? Is attention maybe the true root of her behaviour?

MidniteScribbler · 23/07/2016 03:32

I think that expecting students to wear a sports top or supportive clothing during sport is no different to expecting boys to wear a cup during cricket. If a PE teacher believes that the child may be hurt without a certain item, then they should not allow the student to participate until they are suitably attired. That might be protective equipment, the correct shoes, or in this case, a sports top for a developing girl.

And whilst no one can force anyone to wear a bra in the workplace, you're going to severely restrict your career choices if you come to a job interview or workplace and you've got large breasts that aren't supported. A shop isn't going to hire a woman who wears a low cut top and no bra, a professional company isn't going to send someone out on customer visits if they think someone will get offended (whether they should or not is another matter).

Schools do need to have delicate conversations sometimes as students are maturing - bad breath, body odour, etc. If the school has previously expressed concern to the parent about the daughter's very vocal choice not to wear a bra, and are worried that she doesn't have someone to discuss issues with, then there are obviously a few red flags being raised that the school is obliged to address.