To blame Islam even for this??

[durezz]

I have just heard about a maniac axeman who has injured more than 20 people going on a rampage on a train. It's horrific and doesn't bear thinking about.
But is it fair that without any details people automatically assume it has something to do with the religion of Islam?

Of all the atrocities happening these days I feel so sad that after every such incident 1.8 billion Muslims are somehow held responsible. Fair?

Just after a general consensus to pick your brains and see is that really how people think?

You're taking the word 'loser' and trying to give it the wrong meaning. It isn't saying that non Muslims are a bunch of no good layabout waster losers but then you already know that.

When groups of people within the same religion disagree about something important. Like gay rights or the meaning of scripture etc. They split and form new church's. They don't stop worshiping God or ditch their holy book, but they do create a separate identity to disassociate themselves from the practices of the other group.

What westerns Muslims need to do is split from middle eastern Muslims and for example become reformed Muslims. They could teach a more civilised Islam and produce books explaining the correct peaceful interpretation of Islam.

That is the thing, if people were genuinely interested, Muslims would be perfectly happy to discuss aspects of their religion with them

Many such conversations took place before I ever joined MN. Do a search and see the frustration when the muslim posters don't engage with perfectly politely phrased questions.

I know more about Islam than you and I am not even a Muslim ...Bollocks you do.

The most maddening thing must be that you can no longer use the 'have to be a muslim to understand this stuff properly & you've got it out of context'

Yes, the Quran mentions hell and heaven. And so what? Again, I fail to see how that is mocking or hateful.

Again, I say you are just looking for arguments and wish to show that those of us who aren't in total agreement with you (regardless of our beliefs) are stupid and run away from you because we cant come up with clever arguments to counter yours. Nope, all you do s post more and more stuff to try and prove your point.

I just want to live in harmony with everyone, each to their own. Its a shame you are so hateful though and hellbent on making everyone look upon Muslims in a bad way. Don't you see that all you are doing is causing further hostility?

It isn't saying that non Muslims are a bunch of no good layabout waster losers but then you already know that

Yes I do know that. It's saying far worse i.e. that they are deserving of being tortured and burnt in the Hellfire forever after. It's implying that they are wicked, vile and to be hated.

Mathsmum I appreciate your views and can totally understand them. I also like that you express yourself so nicely! What about the other Muslims stuck in countries where they don't like whats going on but have little they can do about it though?

I am not sure they there would ever be such a big split but I think it is important to stand up and say 'we do not agree with this and this and this' (mainly IS and other such groups I suppose) but isnt that already what they say anyway?

Only God knows what punishment is in store for everyone MistressMia, Muslims included. It is quite clear that not all Muslims will be heading for heaven is it not?

hellbent on making everyone look upon Muslims in a bad way

Er, actually it's your fellow muslims taking all Allah's & Muhammed's hate literally that is making muslims look bad.

Yep, Ok, MistressMia. You're right as always. I'm just sitting here plotting away.

hotdiggedy. Would it not help Muslims in other countries if there was a more peaceful reformed Muslim church they could join. Western Muslims could lead they way by creating one.

I do hear Muslims on TV deploring IS and their killings, but I also hear Muslims agreeing with many of their beliefs (obviously not the killings). Even in this thread, I skimmed through it, I saw agreement with chopping off hands for stealing, that homosexuality was wrong, that the Quran was literally what Allah said and it would never be changed, that killing people for believing a different god was ok under certain circumstances.

I really dont know how that would work maths mum. I dont know all the rules and regulations as a lay person but I think that splitting off wouldn't really work as it would be changing the rules ( I think???) and therefore risk it not being authentic anymore if that makes sense. I think also that even if there was some kind of breakaway and all the peaceful moderates went one way, there would still be all the problems we have today. Don't you think? I'm not really sure what the solution to this sudden explosion of problems is. I imagine the internet and recent governments on both sides have played a big part in it all though.

This is my last comment on this post whether the majority disagree or not what is written by the creator of the World is destined to happen whether we like it or not. ISIS has no links with Islam or Muslims its just a terrorist organisation and will end shortly (once the supply line/funding stops it will fizzle out automatically).
True and peaceful Islam will prevail and is prevailing through one Caliph. Please see the Ahmadiyya Muslim Association (www.alislam.org) for more info. and detailed answers to all your questions. If you're still not happy tune in to Sky 787 for True and logical Islam :) God Bless

I am not a Muslim but I find these people's comments about Mohammed sickening, just like I would be equally appalled at any similar references to Jesus, Abraham or the Budha.

Those are three different people, with distinct lives and distinct histories. Mohammed's life was very different from Jesus'.

And it really does matter the facts about Mohammed because people like ISIS use his life as an example and if he was violent, that's important. We are told that he is the perfect example of manhood/personhood, and it's expected that we can't question that?

I dont come on MN often, is it just me or is that last post from the op a bit threatening? What is written by the creator of the World is destined to happen whether we like it or not.

I just dont get why some dig a hole in the sand and exhort that Islamic terrorists are nothing to do with Islam when they so obviously are.

Durezz we don't agree on anything much but I respect your civility here. It's interesting that you're an Ahmadi who are brutally persecuted by Sunni Muslims, even in the UK with the murder of that poor newsagent in Glasgow. Religious division causes so much misery.

It's not just you mathsmum

That particular book has a mission for the whole world becoming Islam under Sharia law. Again whether they like it or not.

The posts by the muslims on here demonstrate the absolute vital need for schools to incorporate critique of religions in the national curriculum.

Every child should have MANDATORY (no opt outs allowed under any circumstances) lessons in discussing the ethics of the edicts contained within the religions, contradictions should be highlighted and discussed, the claims regarding their truthfulness and origins examined, the historical evidence or lack of for the stories peddled, scrutiny of the impact of them, both adverse and good, on individual lives etc etc

Measures need to be taken at a young age and then right throughout the school years, to counteract the brainwashing that is taking place.

We should all be pushing for this.

Proselytisation and religious propaganda should no longer be allowed unfettered without opposition.

I only read the first post.

Nope. its just a random Nut case.

((((((((((Hugs)))))))) OP

I agree MistressMia. But, I am not at all religious. I think it would be unworkable. I think teachers would hesitate to implement it out of fear of causing offence.

The opposite is happening in schools mistressmia. My 15 year olds tell me the only religions they learn about in RE are Christianity and Islam. They know virtually nothing about Judaism and nothing at all about any other religion.

Despite the fact that we're all atheist if I say anything at all critical of Islam (and only Islam - Christianity is fair game ) my kids will totally shoot me down and accuse me of racism. Despite me pointing out Islam isn't a race.

They don't learn about it properly though. They just cherry pick the "nice bits" out of the Koran.

If I say anything at all critical of Islam (and only Islam - Christianity is fair game ) my kids will totally shoot me down and accuse me of racism

I'm afraid that, if that was me, I'd want to know a lot more about what they're being taught ... and especially how it's being taught

We really should have separation of church and state. When you step into a school all children should be equal and there should be no religion allowed what so ever. Education should be secular, there is enough messing with kids heads.

Cant ever see that happening in schools MistressMia.

Maybe you only say negative things about Islam at home MrsGrayoldlady? Maybe the school only has time to go into depth in a couple of religions so they focus on the ones that are the majority in your area? Who knows. Why dont you go and ask the school about it?

By the way MistressMia, do you have this much hatred towards other people who like to try and follow their religion or is it just Muslims?