DD is starting school in September, but isn't toilet trained.

[BarkingMad12]

Hi. Not sure what to do. DD isn't toilet trained yet, we haven't rushed it at all and did wait until she showed signs, but she never did so we have slowly started trying more and more but it isn't going great. I'm worried as she's closer and closer to going to school.

Do I tell them? If so, when? Also, is she allowed to go? Even though she isn't trained? Advice would be great

I'd be interested to know if those who say it's fine not to be potty trained have experience in childcare/schooling or at least child development?

I've had many years in reception and ks1 plus my own DC. IME in recent years there are at least 1 or 2 children without any SEN who are not reliably toilet trained. IMO it is due to a variety of reasons. Some reasons include children not recognising when they're wet because of the absorbency of modern nappies, some nurseries encouraging the continued use of nappies (possibly because they don't want to deal with accidents) and therefore it is difficult for FT working parents to prioritise and see through toilet training, all children starting school in September rather than summer borns starting at Easter as used to be the case here.

In an ideal world all children would be toilet trained before starting school but as a teacher I don't see it as a major inconvenience. We always ask parents in our visits in July whether their child is toilet trained - if they are not we suggest that they have a go over the summer and get advice from the health visitor if appropriate.

Nurse not nursery*

Also remember being reassured by the hv that she had never known a child to start main stream school in nappies yet!

I've only read the first two pages so apologise if this has been said. It does not take 2 staff members to change a child's nappy. That is not privacy for the child.

As others have said, it should take less than a week of concerted effort to toilet train a child. Hourly trips to the toilet. A Smartie or other treat in the bathroom as soon as they've had a wee or poo. You can't 'take it slowly' you just get on with it.

This timescale may or may not be true. With some children it takes a lot longer than a week, but OP you have 10 weeks or so and if you crack on with FT pants, the odds are stacked way in your favour that she'll be more or less there by Sept. It may well only take a week or two.

I hate the 'NT/SN' labels on these thread. Most toiletting issues simply aren't diagnosed in 3 year olds. A child can be as NT as you like and have a poorly functioning bladder, just as they might not be able to roll their tongue. But at 3 or 4, you give TT a good bash, firmly but kindly, and mostly it works out. And I say that as mum to a child with a bladder condition that meant she regularly wet herself in infant school. (and I'm used to this being blamed on my poor parenting, thanks PPs)

Not read the whole thread so apologies if I'm repeating anything. I recently learned that there are key developmental pointers that need to happen before potty training. Can your dd hop fairly well and stand on her tip toes?if she can't then it is likely get body isn't ready.

My dtds are end of august babies and have just finished reception. They've been fine but I've made sure I don't compare with class mates as i can see they are progressing. The gap closes around year 2/3 I believe. We will see.

I am another one who remembers 2.5 as the cut off point for toilet training. I worked evenings when ds1 was small so I really needed the 2.5 hours each day where he went to playschool. If they weren't toilet trained, they didn't go. Out of all my friends from ds1, ds2 and dd, none of them missed the first day of playschool through not being properly trained. That is 7 years of friends. Each playschool class had 40 children. No children at all were in nappies at school when mine were small, they had all been fully trained for 2 years at least. When I worked at a nursery all of our preschool room were out of nappies every year. We didn't move them up until they were. There needs to be deadlines for parents to have their children trained, that way it would be genuinely easier to spot those with actual difficulties.

Owl it does when you can't be left alone with the kids because of safeguarding rules

I've taken advice on this as a SENCo. You really shouldn't need to have two staff members is the advice I've had. Your school should have a policy and afaik a nominated person to change the nappies, not just any old person.

You do not need to have 2 members of staff to change a nappy. Ds is changed by one person.

In my experience, safeguarding policy will dictate two adults. One to change and other close by observing the adult. In my setting the children would be inside the cubicle with the changing adult positioned so they can be seen but not the child. It's just not good practice to be alone with an undressed child.

D s is only changed by one person.

Its odd, my mum remembers loads of accidents, I remember loads of accidents (and kids that wet themselves being treated appallingly). I guess we all have different experiences.

I think it would be very hard to have deadlines, as just with other areas of development, all children develop at their own rates.

Just do it. Start now and you have 2 months. Most kids are trained between 2 1/2 and 3 1/2 in my experience. If there are no medical issues there is time for you to do it before September.

There is no legal requirement for two adults and it cannot be used as a reason for not changing a child.

The normal process of changing a nappy should not raise child protection concerns, and there are no regulations that indicate that a second member of staff must be available to supervise the nappy changing process to ensure that abuse does not take place. From Southwark council continence policy, other counties have similar policies.

I think alot of people might be uncomfortable about changing nappies without another adult around. Teachers I know are told not to be in a classroom alone with a child with the door closed so I think the teacher/TA would probably worry about protecting themselves.

Regardless of the legalities of teachers/TAs changing children, the fact is that there is no reason why school age children should not be toilet trained before starting school. They have four/five years notice of this needing to be done.

Well there are several reasons really aren't there? I should imagine for the majority of children starting school in nappies, it is that there are disabilities, complex needs or medical reasons (possibly yet to be diagnosed)

Even if it is because the child has a disruptive home life or parents are struggling - surely the school should work with the child and family to be supportive in the best interests of the child.

My DS turns 4 at the very end of Aug and starts school in September. He's been toilet trained for over a year now but is not dry at night (wears pull ups).
I decided to TT him last Easter as DH was going abroad for 10 days and DSS was away for a week as well. I figured lots of 121 attention and just sticking around the house and garden for a week.
I tried stickers and buying special pants etc, he understood what to do but was pretty lazy about weeing in the potty. The thing that really worked for us were chocolate coins. Every wee or poo on target was rewarded even if half didn't quite make it in. He wasn't quite trained in a week, probably took about 2 months in all but he showed no signs of readiness or interest, I just decided to give it a go. I really urge you to start asap, to give her as much time as possible. You may find it easier than you think.

It's down to individual settings own safeguarding policy. I have been changing a little one once who had nappy rash and they cried as I wiped them saying "ow it hurts". I was being as gentle as I could. I would have felt very uncomfortable had I been on my own. Anyway that's not really the point here. Children really ought to be toilet trained well before school. The odd accident is fine but generally clean and dry.

After a disastrous first attempt at training DD (2.2) this weekend I talked to my mother and MIL about this. My sister and I were both in reusable nappies, both trained reliably day and night by 2.5 apparently but with accidents from time to time. My DH and his brothers were the same, both trained by about 2.5. However SIL was 4 and just about to start school before she cracked it (1980s). MIL was embarrassed and really worried about it, even though she had trained 3 children before her. But she got there in the end. She was afraid to talk to anyone about it because she felt she would be judged harshly. SIL is very bright and able, and works in a professional career by the way- no SNs.

Do I really need to point out on every single thread that obviuosly children with additional needs are a seperate issue? With regards to children who have not got any additional issues, they really should be toilet trained before going to school. Most children aged 4-5 are capable of being toilet trained. Most adults are able to figure out that my post wouldn't include children with additional issues and wouldn't need this pointing out to them.

Owl it does when you can't be left alone with the kids because of safeguarding rules