DD is starting school in September, but isn't toilet trained.

[BarkingMad12]

Hi. Not sure what to do. DD isn't toilet trained yet, we haven't rushed it at all and did wait until she showed signs, but she never did so we have slowly started trying more and more but it isn't going great. I'm worried as she's closer and closer to going to school.

Do I tell them? If so, when? Also, is she allowed to go? Even though she isn't trained? Advice would be great

Contact www.eric.org.uk for advice. It's a fab charity for all things toileting related. I think school will be fine, whatever stage she's at by then.

In my experience and from talking to my colleagues, it's clear that there has been a big increase in the past decade of children coming to school in nappies. We now have a school policy on it, it's so frequent.

And it's not just toilet training. One of the reasons out lovely 20 year experienced Reception teacher is leaving is the fact that she now has to manage things like toilet training, dressing skills and basic skills like teaching to share, putting shoes on in class.

I personally think it's a combination of busy parents, different child led attitudes and assumption that the school will do it.

I of course accept that children with needs will be different.

Other teachers have mentioned toilet policies. Kids asking to go to the loo is hugely disruptive. In Ks1 it's part of the job to teach them to go at appropriate times. I'm in year 6 this year, and they still ask.to go all the time. Especially if it's fractions. I'm fairly relaxed and ks1 is more so, but children do need to learn bladder control.

I know which kids genuinely need to go when they ask, because I have a good parent teacher thing going on. They'll tell me if the kid has a uti or need.

As for training, I have one asd ds who was done at 2 and one madam who delayed till she was nearly 4. She is August born. We trained intensively using a reward system over the holidays. When the teacher came for home visit, I primed her to give Dd a pack of "school pants". Seemed to work. She wanted to do it after that.

phleb not being funny, but aside from toilet training, those things should be expected of a reception school teacher, the children are still so young and learning, its not like they are a lot older. I would be expected to help with buttons, or getting dresses as they are still mastering it.

Well OK, but if you say 'no reasons'!

But my point was that if the child had reasons such as a disruptive home life or parents struggling then the child and family still need help and support. Statements like children 'should really be trained before starting school' aren't exactly constructive!

In some countries, they don't start school until 7, so when they start them so young, expect that!

phleb I remember when I was 6 having a tummy ache, I asked to go to the toilet, I was refused and shat myself, I still remember the embaressment over 30 years later.

I would have thought there has to be a school policy on it because of regulations which mean schools have to make reasonable adjustments to provide an education for all children (including those with continence issues), and because of safeguarding guidelines that have to take into account intimate care.

I personally think it's a combination of busy parents, different child led attitudes and assumption that the school will do it

sn and genuine illness/conditions amd difficulties aside,

I was wondering that, given what I've read on here and generally overheard in places like soft play or toddler groups etc where the phrase "nursery/school will sort that out" has been heard quite a few times, whether there has actually been an increase in the number of people assuming that someone else will do it fir them.

I would assume that it must be obvious which kids are having genuine trouble despite the best efforts of parents etc involved and which kids are capable they have just never been made to do it.

You still have 6-7 weeks to go so don't worry too much. Just keep going and be consistent.

But let the teacher know now. Then they can make sure they are briefed and know it is a possibility. Have you not had a home visit or a chance to meet with the teacher/TA yet. I know it's one of the questions our staff ask during the home visit.

She won't be the first child to go to school not yet potty trained, but it is easier if the teachers know ahead of time.

The reason why I suggested that school go back to requiring all children to be toilet trained by the time they begin school is to bring back the culture of parents making sure that this happens. Obviously not including children with any additional needs which would prevent this from happening.

Christ - a lot of judgement around this post tonight ladies.

My DS started using the toilet a few days before he turned 3 but we had accidents for quite a while. FWIW the advice these days is not to force your child to TT but to wait until they are ready, and show certain signs of being ready. DS showed signs but really struggled with the idea of losing his nappy - I think it was a comfort to him as he really doesn't like being in a mess, and he wanted to stay a baby.

I had a potty in the house since he was 14 months. He knew what the toilet was for. We had bought him character underpants etc etc but he completely disliked the potty. I don't think it was very comfortable for him to sit on TBH.

In the end we went shopping, he chose pull ups rather than nappies. When we ran of nappies we had a bit of crying but I kept saying we had no nappies and there was a choice of underpants or pull ups and he chose the underpants!

We skipped the potty. He is much happier on the toilet training seat.

Yes calamity I think I know what you mean.

question is though how would a ploy be put in place like that. one that allows and understands that for some children it just can't be helped whilst simultaneously eliminating the possibility of parebts being able to use amd abuse policies/provisions in place for the children who have genuine need for them...

is there a way to do that realistically?

People are "insulted" by the Eric page that suggests having incontinence needs at school is a disability? Really? Having a child with a disability is nothing to be ashamed of, and someone suggesting a child might have a disability because they are still in nappies at school age is not an insult.

For many parents like me with severely disabled children who are still in nappies full time at age 4 and will be for the foreseeable future some of these posts are horrible.

No one should be teaching their child that it's dirty or disgusting to wear a nappy. Or saying its for babies. That's why children like my son will get bullied at school for wearing a nappy. There is no need for such negative language. Most children who are capable of toilet training will WANT to be out of nappies, a smaller minority will need more help and support for whatever reason and some like my son are incapable of knowing when they have even been for a wee etc.

No one thinks anything of a nanny or childminder working alone to change a nappy re safeguarding issues. It should be no different for a solitary teacher / ta changing a nappy in a school environment. I think people just like to make as many excuses as they can.

OK, but I think you will get the parents who just send them in in pants, with no preparation at all, because they have gone past 'the deadline'. My mum saw children in this situation 40 odd years ago, and I have seen this happen now. This isn't fair to the child or the school.

OP, going back to your OP, personally I would mention it now to the class teacher before they break up, just so they are aware from day 1 - though that's maybe OTT. Make a really concerted effort with it over the summer and talk to the teacher again asap after term starts. Hopefully you'll be reporting that she's pretty reliable by then. You could ask for additional support eg could she be reminded to go every break and lunch, or could they do a sticker chart for her if needed.

For poos, take her to the loo 20mins after meals. Fingers crossed she'll get in the habit of pooing after breakfast or tea, and that will take the pressure off at school.

You need to approach it with a positive attitude, don't write off her chances of cracking it by Sept. There's a lot of talk about children who struggle on this thread (including me mentioning my DD) but until you've had a few weeks of full on pants, work on the assumption that together you can, and will, do it. Accidents are a normal part of the process, not a reason to quit if it's only a few a day and/or you are seeing some progress. Progress being up and down, and bad patches, are normal.

Exactly zzzzz.

To be honest, School will think you are a crap parent if you haven't bothered to toilet train your child. This is totally different from a Child with medical or disabilities. Yes toilet training is hard. But you still have to do it. There were lots of really young children in my dds class, but none wore nappies. You just need to do it. #lazy

Absolutely zzzzz. And in particular, those with and without "acceptable excuses" for late toilet training don't come into YR neatly labelled. Calamity my child and others like her are most definitely part of "all schoolchildren". And most will go through at least YR with no official diagnosis.

Someone up thread suggesting delaying a DC starting school till next Easter.

If a school is fully subscribed they will not let you do that - all DC, regardless of birth date, must start in Sept.

zzzzzzz, I am sure that I am not alone in having a child who saw absolutely no 'intrinsic' advantage in wearing pants rather than nappies, and had no desire whatever to toilet train.

From his point of view, when wearing a nappy he could play uninterrupted by toilet breaks, and someone else [me] would deal with the consequences at a later point. Moving to pants meant that he had to be aware of his own needs, break away from engrossing tasks (he had many ASD traits at a young age, in particular a capacity for focused, obsessive extended play) and deal with toileting himself. He was very unaware of other children, so wanting to 'be like others' by wearing pants would simply never have occurred to him or been seen as positive by him even if pointed out.

Had we not had the 'extrinsic' motivation of pre-school attendance, he would have seen no advantage whatever in the move to pants.

I do think in the OP's case that there is a difference between 'tried absolutely everything, put 100% into it, it's not happening' and 'we've been trying a bit and it's not going very well'.

Without that 'tried 100%' bit, it is absolutely impossible to say whether there is a genuine difficulty - in which case it is absolutely reasonable for your DC to start school in nappies - or whether it is just that they are capable of being toilet trained but it hasn't really been done yet - which is a less good reason to start school in nappies.

That's untrue cocktail any child can defer to Christmas or Easter oversubscribed or not. A school that says otherwise is wrong.