DD is starting school in September, but isn't toilet trained.

[BarkingMad12]

Hi. Not sure what to do. DD isn't toilet trained yet, we haven't rushed it at all and did wait until she showed signs, but she never did so we have slowly started trying more and more but it isn't going great. I'm worried as she's closer and closer to going to school.

Do I tell them? If so, when? Also, is she allowed to go? Even though she isn't trained? Advice would be great

Last year my ds, who is born in June was like your daughter. In August last year I "lost" all the nappies/pull-ups, brought a mountain of cheap knickers, soaps, jlots of kitchen towels, cleaning sprays and liquids and just went for it. Had some nappies saved for night time but lost them quickly as well, using pads under the sheet to save on mattress. My ds quickly learned were the toilet was as it meant clean-ups, showers-all this boring stuff with accidents. We naturally took him to the toilet in the morning first thing and after meals, though accidents did happen in the beginning. He is dry most of the time at school, think we have a total of 5 accidents this past year. Dry most nights and no problems during the day.

Just do it. Lots of accidents to be expected. I did 2 in one go while traveling. It was fine. Boring but fine.

zzzzz, it's all very well saying you don't need two and you can use a monitor but can you blame the staff in the school I mentioned being wary? They have seen a colleagues career ruined, the usual "no smoke without fire" being said by some parents. Is it fair to ask teachers to risk that? I absolutely support children's rights to an education and the care and support they need but I also support the staff. After what happened my husband wouldn't even give our childrens friends lifts if he was on his own.

I am. T/a in a primary school and have worked in reception and ks1. I would definitely advise you to crack on now with toilet training, get advice from your health visitor, books or Internet. It really isn't the norm for a child not to be toilet trained in reception, children are expected at that stage to be able to take themselves to the toilet.

I really wouldnt worry...(although if it is school and summerborn have you consisdered deceleration or deferral? we are planning a january start for no reason other than wanting my still 3 year old a few more months to gain more confidence at preschool)
Either way, Schools are used to dealing with matters like this and the last thing you want to be doing is stressing your child about it. See how you go over the summer but dont make it a big deal else it will become one, all kids get there in their own time and schools and nurseries will support. good luck x

Home carers, HCAs in hospitals, staff in residential care homes and nursing homes will change adults without needing two people, why do school staff think that they need two? There is no reason for it. I think it's a sneaky excuse, I'm afraid, even it's unconscious.

why do school staff think they need two
For the protection of staff is why.
The baby monitor sounds a good idea.
Our school is tiny & we have 3- 1:1 s. None of our children need nappy changes, but l know no-one would refuse.
It'd just be very difficult (on a practical level)

It makes me laugh (hollow) when l read of all the cuts to support staff in schools - especially as the criteria for a place at a special needs school is so difficult.
Children with additional needs & learning differences desperately need the chance to gain education. It is made very tough for those that care passionately about them (in schools) to carry out the support they'd happily give.

There is a huge amount of scaremongering and fear when you work with children - regardless of age or any additional support required. I have been told I should have another adult with me when I talk to young people (teens) for safeguarding reasons but I have refused as I think it would be detrimental to my role and disrespectful of the child. The reality is though that a member of staff being told that a change takes two staff will rarely argue

But why do school staff think they need two for protection when many others - far more vulnerable people - receive personal care from one staff member on a regular basis?

School staff won't be making the decision - local authorities will.

It very much seems that local authorities pay less heed to the needs of elderly or adults with additional needs than children.

I am not excusing poor behaviour or care at all but adding a perspective (bearing in mind it is not infant teaching I do)

Lots of wise advice on this thread.

Though I feel I will tell you all that I didn't encourage my April born twins particularly. They have a dsis 18 months older and we talked about pants and had potties about but I took their lead. Nearing three I stated to wonder. One took his nappies off a week before he turned three, his twin 3 or 4 weeks later and more to join in. They start school in september and the later trained twin is still having accidents at least once or twice a week in the two days he's at preschool

My lg started school last September she was toilet trained January before school for wees but as she suffers with chronic constipation we stuggled with number 2s as she was scared to go in the potty she was put back in nappies/pull ups over the summer to try and sort her out! When she started school she was in pull ups we told her teacher in the home visit at the end of the first term they put a plan in place to toilet train as she went from wee on the toilet to doing it in the pull ups after a few weeks she was fully toilet training for both number 1 and 2s so I would definitely recommend involving the school in helping, we had a bit of an issue with her teacher as she is very old school and obviously felt that she should have to deal with a child that was not potty trained but I insisted on their help so a plan was put in place with the inclusion/senco teacher and she is fine, also you with be amazed what you can achieve over the summer

zzzzz, if your school haven't dealt with the issue then staff might be relaxed about it but as I said if you have seen the fallout it is understandable that staff worry about it.

Doggity, people are naturally very concerned that children are kept safe unfortunately they seemed less worried about other groups. Remember the paediatrician's house getting attacked? Ever heard of a geriatrician having the same problem?

If schools wish to have 2 members of staff to change nappies or take children to the toilet that is their choice ( as long as children are not kept waiting in dirty nappies or wetting/ soiling themselves whilst waiting for two members of staff to become available). What cannot happen as it being used as a reason for not changing a child, asking parents to come in etc.

honkinghaddock, I asolutely agree. The child and the adult(s) need to be considered and lets remember that two adults is protection for the child as well. I am talking about nappy changing, from my experience even with 4 year olds the adult isn't "hands on" with changing from wet pants, from what I have observed they accompany child to loo and stand at the door and encourage child, handover clean pants socks or whatever.

That is not my experience at all Granny. Depending on the level of the accident it sometimes has to be pretty hands on!

Ok, so some schools have 2 members of staff, and some don't. The point is there is no requirement to have 2 members of staff, and so this reason cannot be given as a reason not to take children in nappies, or a reason to ask parents in to change - even if the school policy is to use 2 members of staff for nappy changes.

hilarious.....children with additional needs didn't go to ms schools, children were left vulnerable to poor intimate care, children with complex needs in mainstream schools were left without support to go on and fail.

Side splittingly funny.

hazeyjane, exactly right. Children are entitled to the best, it does help if parents who can train before school do as it leaves resources for the children who can't be trained/trained yet.

Re the hands on, I must be just lucky the days I am in school!

Yes Randomer, isn't it hilarious that things are put in place to make sure disabled children, like my son. are looked after properly in school.

hilarious....however did we all cope before monitors, TA'S ,action plans,care plans and all the rest

Yes isn't it just the funniest thing EVER that these things are now in place to ensure that children with disabilities have the same access to education as their peers.

And you know what "coping" isn't a happy life, it is getting by. So I suspect in years gone by an awful lot of women "coped" with things that could have been made much easier by having the access to care plans and teaching assistants.

Perhaps hilarity not quite correct. OK disabled children must be properly looked after.This is a given.

Is the daughter of the OP disabled? We don't know,but it was not mentioned, so assume not.

The needs of a disabled child are not the same as a child who is not trained on arrival in Reception.

Gosh. How on earth have so many parents shunned their responsibilities? Why would a teacher want the added burden of changing/teaching kids about the toilet?

Wow.