DD is starting school in September, but isn't toilet trained.

[BarkingMad12]

Hi. Not sure what to do. DD isn't toilet trained yet, we haven't rushed it at all and did wait until she showed signs, but she never did so we have slowly started trying more and more but it isn't going great. I'm worried as she's closer and closer to going to school.

Do I tell them? If so, when? Also, is she allowed to go? Even though she isn't trained? Advice would be great

hazey yes, two members.
It isn't always possible. A 'one off' accident is much easier to accommodate. Staff can be asked to help. A child that starts school, just 'unable' to use the toilet won't have such an easy ride.
not that l think that is okay - far from it. Just that staffing levels in Reception are already under strain.
I'm an optimist, l don't think op will have a massive problem. Even those toilet trained children don't spend all day in the loo. Many of them don't poo at school either.

I'm sorry, but I disagree with a lot of you. I think signs do exist... Telling you that they have done a wee/poo, stopping what they are doing to do a wee/poo are a couple of examples. I think this means they are ready. I think that the poster's child probably is showing these signs (due to her saying that she does a wee on the toilet/potty) but have probably been ignored. However, I don't think it's fair to call it lazy. She probably wasn't aware. It would be lazy to now put it off, for school to deal with, as she now knows. However, I don't think it's fair to just call her lazy now.

I think it's important to wait for these type of signs, but with showing them the toilet (I preferred to skip the potty) and letting them sit on it while you're in the bath, etc. I know it sounds gross, but also letting them see how you use the toilet, so they understand. My two children were toilet trained by the time they went to nursery, with very few accidents. I don't think it's fair to shame them into toilet training.

We used a chart, you got a sticker for weeing, 2 for pooing. If you had a wee accident, 1 gets taken away, if you have a poo accident, 2 get taken away. This is because the 'underwear fairy' needed you to get a certain amount of stickers before you were ready for underwear. We never used underwear until they got a certain amount of stickers, they just went around the house naked on the bottom half. It worked really well, as they knew that stickers were being removed due to them being further away from their pants, not because they were naughty.

When they reached the 'underwear fairy', the fairy left them a whole set of underwear. The smile that it brought them was priceless! They were so excited. Then we set up a new chart, with the next intensive being a toy, so the 'underwear fairy' brought them a toy if they got enough stickers, due to them looking after the underwear (not ruining them).

I couldn't recommend this strategy enough

I think it is good to strike a balance between being lead by the child and imposing things on them. I cannot imagine how hard it must be to be a Reception teacher and I just don't think its fair to expect them to be changing children.
The child needs to be trained before school,just as thousands are. If there are physical or psychological problems parents need professional support.
I'm not sure about the whole bribery/sweets/toys idea. By all means ,it should be a positive experience for children but on the whole its a part of raising a child which is best dealt with with consistency and time.

ERIC are very good for continence issues:
www.eric.org.uk/assets/downloads/103/Right%20to%20Go%20LEAFLET%2012.2012.pdf

They clearly say only one carer is required, and will support a parent to argue the case where the school feels 2 people need to support the child.
My school insisted on 2 TAs to go, but this was impossible for the child. When a toilet training child needs to go, they need to go NOW! Not when two TAs are ready to go. After several mountains of washing, I finally had a few stern words about the ridiculousness of this, combined with the right to privacy etc. and my son now only needs 1 TA to go with him.

Has the OP considered delaying entry for her child by a year given she is a summer born child? Or deferring her daughter until later in the year when the OP feels her child is more confident at toileting. There is no requirement for her child to start school until the first day of the summer term to hold her place. Conversely, she can start at CSA aged 5 in the following September in Reception if this is requested. Part time schooling is also an option too.
www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/389448/Summer_born_admissions_advice_Dec_2014.pdf

I think, for exactly the reason that some children need and have a right to be helped with their toileting at school, it is also right that those that CAN toilet train do, to ensure that the support is going to the children who need it.

Although I have to say, I have never yet met a YR child who isn't toilet trained and doesn't have extra needs.... But there you go.

Are you going on holiday soon OP? I toilet trained my DD on holiday and I think it really helped. The change of environment (we use the big toilet here) totally worked and by the end of a busy week she was fine using loos everywhere.

I didn't wait for signs either - the minute my DDs turned two I stopped buying nappies full stop and both were done in a week or so. With the absence of other issues, I have to admit in our area the 2nd birthday is the trigger not looking for signs. I'm suprised the nursery haven't mentioned or started it?

julie

That sounds soul-destroying

It doesn't sound the same as the OPs situation, though. Not from what she told us

Unfortunately she hasn't been back to elaborate

Excuse my asking the obvious, but why on earth send her to school if she's not ready? There is no legal requirement after all. Keep her in preschool another year until she's ready.

yes ,schools have to be inclusive and rightly so. If a child had additional needs by all means support. Of course.

Have we established that the child in question has additional needs? Is there a developmental delay or are there other things coming into play here?

The child who is never trained and the four year old who is not showing signs are possibly two different levels of need?

Indeed support is patchy but I would suggest it is worth a try.

I stand by my statement that a Reception teacher, obviously has to deal with the odd little accident. Part of the day in the first few weeks. A child who is unable to use a toilet is a different thing entirely. Apart from balancing the needs of 30 small children, the teacher has a curriculum to follow.

Taking a child to the toilet can easily be achieved with one TA.
Changing a pull up, one TA*
Changing a very soiled nappy (unless that child has a 1:1) two professionals.
My last example is very rare though, as most children who are still wearing nappies (as opposed to pull ups) will already have a care plan in place.

I helped on a school trip today for 3-4 and 4-5 year olds.

First time I've helped out with those classes, so I was given a private little head's up about a couple of the kids who aren't as reliable as the others and who need a reminder.

One kid had an accident. No-one laughed or said unkind things to him, he didn't miss out on anything as I made sure he still had a turn after I had got him changed. He wasn't embarrassed, and why? Because I didn't bloody embarrass him "don't worry, it doesn't matter at all". He said "I'll try and go sooner next time". "That's brilliant, what a great idea, but don't worry"

Anyone, ANYONE who helps with small children and doesn't expect there to be a few accidents is fairly small minded I think.

Hi - children do not need x2 members of staff to change them. See www.eric.org.uk
School nurse can do an individualised 'toileting plan'. All staff have been CRB checked - and need to respect childs dignity

Whatever you do don't stress about it! Easier said than done I know but maybe start trying and if it doesn't work after a few days leave it a few weeks and try again. You've got loads of time (even if it doesn't feel like it you really have) still so don't put pressure on yourself or her because it will make it so much more stressful and less likely to work. When she's ready it will probably only take a few days for her to get the hang of it (although there'll still be some accidents occasionally). Definitely talk to the school before the end of this term but I'm sure she will have cracked it by September. Xxx

I'm a specialist paediatric bladder and bowel care nurse ... In a team of 5 nurses. We are always going into schools to support with toileting difficulties... Children with or without additional needs. They have had a delay in a normal developmental milestone... And need support , just like speech n language.

Everybody is worthy of school and I didn't suggest otherwise.

Re the support...in my area which is notoriously tight with money, a friend encountered something similar. She had some useful input from a psychologist and a health visitor.

Devon.
There is a Paediatric Continence Commissioning Guide that you can use to take to local Ccg's. Where are you??

childsay, the child might not need two adults, the adults might feel differently. As I said earlier teachers careers can be ruined by an allegation, teachers I know are advised not to be alone in a classroom with a child with the door closed. Teachers have rights as well.

At school where I volunteer there is one male teacher in keystage 1, he never closes his classroom door, thank heavens the others do as the noise from his classroom is distracting enough if you are trying to work in one of the work spaces in the corridor but clearly he feels safer with an open door.

No not Virginhealthcare... The school nurses are Level 1 and they are currently commissioned to see all children with bladder and bowel difficulties. When stuck... They then refer onto us at Level 2

Re; allegations.
We suggest a baby monitor in toilet to monitor if there are concerns. This is an intimate care process and the child's dignity should be maintained.