DD is starting school in September, but isn't toilet trained.

[BarkingMad12]

Hi. Not sure what to do. DD isn't toilet trained yet, we haven't rushed it at all and did wait until she showed signs, but she never did so we have slowly started trying more and more but it isn't going great. I'm worried as she's closer and closer to going to school.

Do I tell them? If so, when? Also, is she allowed to go? Even though she isn't trained? Advice would be great

but if they didn't then, yes, the building would be modified so all the children could attend.

Unfortunately not always, zzzzz. The junior school that ds is to attend, is in a grade 1 listed building meaning no adaptations that alter the building can be made, and no lift can be put in. My friend's ds with cp, and a full time wheelchair user had to go out of area to go to a school that could meet his mobility needs.

Fortunately permission has finally been given (after 3 failed attempts) to build a new school, next to ds's present infant school, and this school should be built by the time ds has to attend (keeping everything crossed - as ds can't do stairs without a lot of help!)

zzzzz, there is a large modern school that isn't very far away but the school is in what was a village that has now been swallowed up by a large town and people in the "village" still have strong ties to their school so generally people cope with a less than idea situation rather than go to the school that would provide an easier environment for the child and adults. I think that is a valid choice and it is obviously important to them.

I'm having similar issues and this thread makes me want to weep with all the judgemental shit. I'm really thankful to those with help to offer though - I'll be checking out the ERIC site shortly.

DS is 4 soon so starting school in Sept. He's my youngest and the older ones were toilet trained within a relatively short space of time and without fuss. I'm not doing anything different with DS but we've been battling on for the best part of a year now. He finally cracked wees a few months ago, but is still seemingly oblivious to when he has poo'd his pants.

He doesn't wear nappies, so there's no confusion. We've tried bribery, sticker charts, praise, special pants, reading picture books, sit him on the toilet after meals/at regular intervals...

It's soul destroying (not the washing - nursery and I just bin the pants now) to have no idea what to do next. And I feel mortified that school may have to deal with his accidents unless we get there in the next month or so.

Not complacent, not lazy, not minimising the problem. Just asking for help, like the OP.

Nappies are expensive, heavy to lug home and out to the bin or time consuming to wash and dry but also pretty challenging to deal with as a 3 or 4 year old produces more, can be less compliant, and frankly it smells more. I fail to see how this could ever be the easier or lazy option for anyone

when you are unprepared to even temporarily alter your lifestyle in order to train then of course nappies are the easier option.

needing the toilet is an urgent thing. where's a wet nappy can be left for a bit. when people are quite happy to change nappies in a corner somewhere using the buggy or even doing them stood up, it's less effort than trekking to the lift or uo stairs to use facilities.

I work in my town centre I often have seem the sale people walking round town with their kids for hours.the kids eating amd sleeping in the buggies. the park for instance, they would just lay their kid on the grass and change the nappy. rather than walk to the public toilets.

unless they poo which mine only ever really did once a day as toddlers. sonetimes every other day, it's not as urgent as trio to the toilet.

seen the same people

Unless it is listed they should be able to put in a lift.

However, back on the toilet issue. One thing that these threads bring up (and it may be a digression from the OP, but is worth discussing) is the attitude that comes up around a child with continence issues - whatever the reason - if it is just a delay then it is treated differently to any other milestone where a child might be delayed. It is talked about with words like disgust and shame and seen as being a step too far for TAs and teachers to deal with. There is talk of other children teasing, and how embarrassed the child will be to be in nappies or have an accident.

I work with little children (preschool), I deal with all their needs - emotions, behaviour, physical etc. I hope that I treat them with the respect and dignity that I want my own children to be dealt with. My ds is 6 and in a mainstream school (albeit he switches between a coplex needs resource base and ms), he is in nappies.Touch wood, so far we have had a problem with only one member of staff when it came to his intimate care, and we have requested that she doesn't work with ds in this area. The others treat him with the kindness and care, he deserves.

I hope that all of you teach your children that there is no shame if an older child needs nappies, and I hope that those who work in childcare can have some empathy for how hard it is for a child that has continence needs.

DixieNormas, I wonder if there are the same allegations in nursing homes? I referred to the case of the Plymouth nursery earlier and I think that made alot of parents concerned and of course the other side of the coin is that children have made untrue allegations that have ruined careers. I am assuming that adults with physical problems would be less vulnerable to this than a child or adult with mental disabilities. Maybe that makes a difference. In hospitals you can ask for a chaperone, well they have signs saying that at my local hospital, does that happen in nursing homes and does it work both ways?

DixieNormas, thanks for the information. I do think it isn't reasonable that people would have to wait, I know it isn't the fault of the staff. Not a nice choice really if you would prefer a chaperone but the only way to get that is to sit in your own excrement. I don't think it is fair to the staff either. Hard to believe its the 21st century sometimes.

I'm a TA in reception. (1:1)
Depending on the school size & how many available TA s in the class, will make a difference in how easy it will be to accommodate a NT child in reception.
It also depends on the location of the toilets, how many 'separate' rooms are available.
Depending on the level of help with toilet training needed, will depend on how many adults will need to be present.
A full on 'nappy change' will need two adults, for everyone involved.
There isn't any reason to worry - l'd happily change your daughter (if needs be). The problem isn't who would mind helping. More, is it actually possible in a class of 30 - ish - with 1 TA.
Luckily, most children (if not dry) don't like defecating with others about - so school would on have to deal with a pull up. Takes minutes & easy to get the child back to their learning.

Summer is a perfect time to try & get this done. Don't (however) panic - it will sort itself out. One way or another.

A full on 'nappy change' will need two adults, for everyone involved.

Why is this? This isn't the case in ds's or dd's schools (and isn't in the gov guidelines on intimate care)

DixieNormas, sounds really hard for you all. I think care of the elderly/vulnerable needs better funding and better conditions for staff and residents. I think everyone needs to remember it could be anyone of us in the future and if it isn't what we would want then it isn't good enough.

A "full on nappy" does not require two people to change it. How ridiculous. If that was the case I would have to wait for dh to come home every time ds aged 4 with Sen has done a poo. There is no legal requirement whatsoever that a school needs 2 people to change a child. None.

It may not be government guidelines to have 2 people but it is certainly what happens in our primary school

Then that is the schools choice and that is up to them but the point is they cannot refuse to change a nappy on the basis of it needing 2 people. If 2 people happen to be available to do it that is fine, it's the refusal to do it on that basis which is wrong and can and should be challenged.

It is safer to have two people. Government guidelines or not. It wouldnt be an issue at our school - but most staff in schools want to feel protected. It is the same rule in the pre school. Although they are set up in a more 'user friendly' way. So they wouldn't need to go anywhere as 'private'. Something you'd be using/searching for in a primary school.

It isn't because one person can't cope fairy is that what you mean?
I'm explaining that schools like to cover themselves & lessen the risk of an accusation to staff.
A urinated pull up could almost be done by the child itself. A poo-y nappy, requiring cream etc... not so much... especially in a school where a 'private' place would need to be sought.

The poster is saying that the school can't refuse to do the navy if only one person is available.

in the schools where 2 staff are required to change a child, what happens when a child has an accident (wee or poo, this requires cleaning up and changing)? Are 2 members of staff required for this as well?

Well yes, obviously.
I know most schools will find a way to make it work.
However, children without a 1:1 will find it difficult to get the best toileting care in a standard primary. Especially a small one.
In the op's situation, she hasn't mentioned anything about additional needs. That situation would be factored in. Preferably in an EHCP - with a competent professional attending to them.
Not the same as a child who hasn't quite got the hang of the toilet.