DD is starting school in September, but isn't toilet trained.

[BarkingMad12]

Hi. Not sure what to do. DD isn't toilet trained yet, we haven't rushed it at all and did wait until she showed signs, but she never did so we have slowly started trying more and more but it isn't going great. I'm worried as she's closer and closer to going to school.

Do I tell them? If so, when? Also, is she allowed to go? Even though she isn't trained? Advice would be great

I was responding to Janeymoos assertion incredulity at children with sn not being recognised until older. Not suggesting the ops dd could have sn.

On average a diagnosis of asd takes 2 years from initial assessment to diagnosis. Most children with asd do not start exhibiting symptoms until around 2-3 years of age. So there will be lots of children with undiagnosed asd in reception and year one and those who may have other special needs such as learning difficulties and sensory processing disorders that are going through assessment or who have yet to be assessed. Lots of parents are also in denial about their children having any special need and so these children will have needs picked up on by the school and not before. It is very ignorant to suggest there are less special needs / asd children than there actually are. In fact there are probably more that are currently undiagnosed. It is very difficult to get a diagnosis. Current figures for asd suggest between 1 in 65-100 children have some form of asd, this is not including some sort of learning difficulty or sensory issue (spd is often diagnosed separately). If you consider an average class size is about 34 it would therefore not be unusual for at least 2-3 of those children to have some form of special need, possibly more.

Some posters need to think about what they are teaching their children with comments like nappies are ridiculous and for babies. Some people will always be in nappies. Do you want your children to grow up with nasty sneering attitudes towards people with disabilities? No wonder children laugh at children in nappies. Although at my son's mainstream school, a child that did would be in serious trouble.

OP try not to worry. There is a massive difference between a child who had just turned 4 and a child on the cusp of 5. Toilet training will come. If it takes time it takes time. As long as you are doing your best you should get plenty of support.

My friend's daughter struggled with toilet training (still does with poo and she's 5 next week) and she has had a lot of support and helped from our local HV team.

in fairness fairy the op has given no info what so ever that suggests there is even the possibility of an underlying condition.

she just sounds like she's had sone half arsed attempts and is suddenly having a panic that she's starting school and she's left it a bit late.

the august thing is irrelevant as many would have attempted this at least a yr ago.

which would have made any potential issues far more apparent right now.

she's just not going to know until she tries. which she hasn't done yet.

if she comes back and it's apparent that actually there are some red flags here then obviously advice/posts will he different.

but as it stands right now. she hasn't bothered really and is now panicking.

Giles I understand that, my comment was more to others who have expressed surprise at how many children have undiagnosed issues and saying this as if parents are making it up.

special needs diagnosis pending (yeah right!)

For example

It's nice the OP stirred up a good debate, got some parents upset and then failed to return

Ds is regarded as having profound autism but was diagnosed just 2 months before he started reception. This was with being wait and see for several years. It is hardly surprising that children who are only slightly less severe than my son. start school without a diagnosis. I know of 2 who were in his class who got a diagnosis after starting school.

The op doesn't think her child has special needs or autism!
Where has that suggestion come from? She just can't be bothered to toilet train!

My post is in response to those people who have been incredulous that a child who has sn can start school without having a diagnosis of one.

No sn has been mentioned by the parent of this girl, so we assume that she is nt. It seems as though the op has made a half arsed attempt to potty train, and not given it her all so you cannot blame her dd reluctance on using the toilet as sn.

No one is suggesting sn in relation to the op. The posts talking about the prevalence of undiagnosed sn are in response to various posts suggesting parents use this as an excuse not to toilet train.

Op i old also suggest that you teach dd to dress and get changed for pe by herself, use a knife and fork, open any packets in lunchbox by herself, put shoes on and off by herself and get her eyes tested before she starts school, eye test is free. There are lots of threads about other things you can do to help prep for school.

Isn't nappy changing a bit different in pre school/nursery? I know when I picked GC up from their nursery the changing area was just off the room they were in so with door left partly open the staff member changing the child wasn't completely alone. At GC school an adult changing a child has to leave the classroom, walking alone a corridor, down some steps and into toilets where the door automatically closes. I completely understand why a teacher/ta would feel uncomfortable about that.

At a local school a child who had been told off during the day made an allegation about a staff member in the changing room. He was completely cleared but after months off while he was investigated he was a wreck and never returned to work.

I think the teacher/ta has every right to say they don't want to do this alone.

Changing areas so not have to be the school toilets - as long as there is a designated changing area. All schools should have disabled facilities which can also be used as a changing area.

This is the common model for procedures around continence and intimate care in primary schools.

www.leics.gov.uk/personal_care_guidance_for_early_years-2.pdf

I'm not sure it fair to safe half arse attempts.

I gave it good goes but found that within a few weeks of no progress everyone - family friends, other mothers, HV, pre-school all tell you to stop as the child isn't ready with implication you are causing harm by continuing.

So with younger in school aged children you do end up looking at a deadline and worrying - as all the other children in meantime have trained.

But it's perfectly possible and the OP had plenty of time to get there.

Op i old also suggest that you teach dd to dress and get changed for pe by herself, use a knife and fork, open any packets in lunchbox by herself, put shoes on and off by herself and get her eyes tested before she starts school, eye test is free

^^ good advice mine could all reliably do that and it helped them feel comfortable at school- though they test the eyes in reception it doesn't hurt to get that done as well.

rhaegal

you may have had good goes and sought advice and followed it.

but that's not what the op appears to have done.

phrases like "slowly tried" and "not rushing/pushing it" don't exactly give the impression that she's really put much thought or effort into it.

it's something you have to have real commitment in doing. you can't go slowly. you are either potty training or you aren't.

I'm. not sure your situations are comparable.

I do disagree with the pull ups thing though. they aren't nesessarily confusing depending in your child's levels of understanding.

ideally you get your shit organised bit before hand to allow a decent block of time to do ot. make sure you have plenty of pants and easy to remove clothing. make sure you have done your weeks shop first etc

but fact is you can't have your kids peeing on busses or sat on the potty in a cafe so there are times where you have to use them.

but you do need to try and minimise this and be prepared to make a few sacrifices early on.

hazeyjane, the school I am thinking of is a Victorian building with lots of physical limitations. Short of knocking it down I'm not sure what they could do for example for a wheelchair to get from classrooms to hall they need to exit the school, out onto main road to reach a new entrance with a lift. Not great in rain or snow but that is the reality. Thinking about it I'm not sure anyone in a wheelchair could get to toilets any easier. A teacher/ta would be very isolated when changing a child.

A graded building does not need to adapt for wheelchairs or mobility issues. However they would and should be able to accommodate for changing children if necessary. Hopefully most school buildings (well state ones anyway) like this will be sold and new accessible schools built.

zzzzz I think protecting staff is also important, false and real allegations are made. Remember the woman in the Plymouth nursery who was abusing children when changing them? I think it is safer for the child and the adult for these things to happen with protection for both.

I absolutely agree with you about teaching children to be nice, I don't know why people need to say negative things about nappies as none of us know if we will have children/grandchildren/children we love who need to remain in nappies. It doesn't need to be a big deal, it is just something we expect if there aren't any problems, no need for nasty remarks or bribery.

hazeyjane, it is a state school and on a difficult site on a hill so school can't be on one level. I don't know if they will rebuild, there really isn't any sites within easy travelling distance. I don't think local people would be happy to lose the school. When there are children in wheelchairs it means classes being swapped as some can't be reached with wheelchairs.