to think it's OK for a guy to be in the ladies if he's with his daughter?

[laurenwiltxx]

I'm reading alot about the issue with trans and toilets recently and got me thinking about times my brother has had to take his daughter to the toilet and was taking her to the Men's (when disabled toilets weren't there or out of order ect) and I protested he take her into the women's as it wasn't appropriate considering men have there things out at the urinals and things, and seats are more likely to be peed on ect. So he began doing so and got alot of looks from women. Ive been thinking about it alot more and do understand its a really hard one. What would you say daddies in the ladies with daughters or should take them in the men's?

Toilets cause so much angst on MN

All of the "I don't see any issue using the disabled toilet" posters should have a look at mn's recent stance on disabilism. They will delete and (if it comes to it) ban persistent offenders. Just FYI :)

PurpleDaisies I'd be very surprised if people suddenly stopped using baby change in the disabled toilets if more appeared elsewhere.

I would use the changing station in the ladies room if one was available, wouldn't even check if there is one in the disabled toilet.

It is inappropriate for men to be in women's toilets unless it is absolutely unavoidable. (Ie only baby change facilities in the women's.)

Re: what people do in toilets - well personally I have many times got changed in women's toilets. Generally I do this in the open plan bit rather than a cubicle. (Stops forming a queue, means I have enough space to move my arms, means I don't have to put my bag on the floor.) I do this in the understanding that other women may see my underwear, flabby mummy tummy, the fact that when putting on my posh work dress I sometimes get stuck and look like an upside down insect etc. I am ok with this. I do not expect to have a man walk in at that moment. Because I am in a women's space. Designed for women.

My Dh takes Dd into the men's toilets, changing rooms at swimming etc without problems. (She's six now and is nearly at the point where she can go by herself but the doors are often heavy and she's not great with locks and he doesn't want to risk her getting stuck.)

When she was about 3 Dh took her to the toilet for the first time for ages and she suddenly seemed far more aware.....

Dd: What were those men doing?
Dh: Having a wee
Dd (louder): Why were they having a wee standing up?
Dh (quieter): Because men do have wees standing up.
Dd (much louder): Is that because they have willies daddy? (She had a new baby brother and was very very interested in what was in his nappy.)
Dh (much much quieter): Yes darling. Now have you finished? Shall we wash our hands?
Dd (at foghorn volume): Ok daddy. Daddy - can I watch the men having a wee standing up?
Dh: No darling . Off we go! Now!

Dh then returned to where I was calmly feeding ds looking rather red. Pretty sure Dd wasn't traumatised by her trip in the men's toilets. Dh on the other hand.......

Back to the original question, I think I am in the minority as I would rather my DH take DD in the ladies as I find the mens so gross (not that I have been recently! maybe I am wrong and it is all pretty and smells of roses...).
I wouldn't mind a dad in the ladies toilet. We are all dressed when out of the cubicles, contrary to the mens which have urinals.

Just re the changing tables, I think it's also sensible for parents of toddlers not to keep parents of babies waiting for the tables. I change toddler Ds standing up in the ladies loo cubicle (before/after having a wee myself!). It takes me a very short time .

I also do this to avoid tying up the disabled loo of the table is in there.

Slight digression....

Mumoftwoyoungkids Cross posts, I never thought someone would change clothes out of the cubicles, I do it inside myself - but fair enough!
So maybe the dad should ask a woman getting in to check if that is the case before getting in.

I would use the changing station in the ladies room if one was available, wouldn't even check if there is one in the disabled toilet.

That's great-maybe it's just me being too cynical but we've already had another poster saying they wouldn't want to use baby changing facilities in full view of other people queuing for the toilets. I think more disabled toilets with RADAR key access might be the best way forward.

I doubt RADAR keys would improve things. I've seen people on here (and other parenting forums) shamelessly admit that they're got one from eBay or Amazon without having a disablist (visible or otherwise) or continence issue. Also, they are a little bit fiddly and not a great solution for people who have issues with their hands.

As a dad with two daughters I have been caught by this issue before, for example when going to the cinema or the swimming pool. I have, to my shame, copped out and taken both into the disabled facilities at times.

When I took DDs swimming and used the men's changing for us all DW was really unhappy. Basically along the lines of "What if your uncle Steve was changing in there? A child shouldn't see that! No-one should!"

My dp just takes her into the men's, it never crossed my mind to suggest he do otherwise and I don't think he'd feel comfortable going into the ladies.

Doggity at people buying keys when they are not disabled!

Yes, I agree about them being fiddly and a pain for disabled people. It would be much better if people would just not use facilities that are not meant for them.

Sometimes it seems like people are actually jealous of disabled people getting "better" facilities.

I'd gladly give up my cancer and forfeit my right to use the disabled loo. Anyone is welcome to swap with me :)

Mumoftwoyoungkids Thank you. Recovering from surgery, it's all going well, but I needed something to smile about and you last post has me PMSL!

So all those ladies who think a little girl must be taken into the ladies because men's toilets are smelly and dirty- what about a man taking his little son? Or is it only little girls who are delicate things that must not be exposed to smell and dirt?

Little boys are definitely better in the ladies I think, especially very young ones.

I really don't understand some of this. Why is it worse for a child to see a man getting changed than a woman? I'm quite prudish myself and I never get naked in communal changing rooms. But men's bodies are no more disgusting than women's.

Obviously if a man deliberately exposes himself to a child then that is very wrong. But surely the vast majority of men wouldn't do that and would actively try to hide their "thing" while weeing or getting changed. And if someone is a sexual predator then they would probably seek children out, rather than waiting around in the loo on the off chance that a child comes in with their dad, and then trying to somehow expose themselves to the child without the dad noticing

Tbh the worst part of this whole thread is that the OP was apparently unable to write the word penis.

If I'm with my children, it's often far easier to use the accessible loo due to space. I can't see the harm

Did you read the rest of the thread? I quite clearly outlined the 'harm' it could cause.

Some do have baby change tables, and I understand women with large buggies going in...but the point I was making was people like you and PP who don't actually need it. Stick to your own toilets and take your children with you.

She's a delicate lady Roasted. She can't be expected to use such a dirty word

Amazing how I managed with three under five, still selfish wins.

Good for you for being a martyr.... The fact baby change facilities tend to be in them and they're often marked disabled or baby/ child tells me the intention is not that they not necessarily meant for exclusive disabled use. For instance at my local church the only toilet with a changin table is the 'disabled' loo!

Yes, I am such a smug martyr that I don't park in blue badge bays unless entitled to either.

It's not recommended that new facilities for the disabled are built with changing units in them anymore for precisely this reason (see the disability alliance).

Still, as we weren't talking about the duel purpose rooms it makes your point rather irrelevant doesn't it.

Those rooms would never be free if everyone with young children used them, luckily most people are decent and don't put their minor five minutes of inconvenience above someone else.

Read the threads that other people have mentioned on here about it.

And yes I have seen people advising on here to buy radar keys online for their convenience too.

I (and many others) have said before re "well there's a baby sign on the door"... stop and think, are you using the facility because you have no other choice, or because it is easier for you.

If I'm with my children, it's often far easier to use the accessible loo due to space. I can't see the harm.... Perhaps someone will need to wait a minute or so whilst i do this, but that's no different to any toilet. I don't get your concern.

This is what I was referring to, nothing to do with a duel purpose room, although I think that these should be phased out.

I did say if there was no alternative to using the accessible toilet. But whatever. And as for not writing penis I did that without thinking really but considering alot of women on here are embarrassed of the thought of a guy seeing them washing their hands or looking in a mirror for 3 seconds, I might start a riot pmsl. I just thought id bring it up, to see how uncomfortable it actually made people.