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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think it's OK for a guy to be in the ladies if he's with his daughter?

359 replies

laurenwiltxx · 06/07/2016 22:34

I'm reading alot about the issue with trans and toilets recently and got me thinking about times my brother has had to take his daughter to the toilet and was taking her to the Men's (when disabled toilets weren't there or out of order ect) and I protested he take her into the women's as it wasn't appropriate considering men have there things out at the urinals and things, and seats are more likely to be peed on ect. So he began doing so and got alot of looks from women. Ive been thinking about it alot more and do understand its a really hard one. What would you say daddies in the ladies with daughters or should take them in the men's?

OP posts:
Bloopbleep · 06/07/2016 23:53

I go into the men's toilet without any kids if there are large queues for the ladies. I do shout in first - I personally have no issues with my Dd going into the men's toilet with her dad. I did so with my dad and never got to see a single willy

shrunkenhead · 06/07/2016 23:56

What Horatio night boy said too. Seriously what did you think he would do in a ladies' loo? Tbh I don't even think this is a genuine post and am surprised that mumsnetters are even pandering. It all sounds a bit journo to me and we should he wise by now to numerical names.....

midcenturymodern · 06/07/2016 23:56

I feel like I've never lived.

I have never seen a man bring a little girl into the womens loo

I have never heard a man say the mens is too rank for a small girl to go in (I imagine we are mainly talking about shopping centres and restaurants rather than night clubs)

I have never seen a penis so large that it is at risk of being 'on display' and frightening the horses when a man is pissing at a urinal, and I work in healthcare so I've seen more dicks than the average person.

I have never heard a man say that they have had to use the women's loo for baby change (DP was a SAHD for a long time when ours were small. It was never an issue)

I've never seen a sign banning under 10s (do they have to piss in the gutter or something - can't get my head around that at all)

I have seen a man in a public loo. I was a teenager and he sexually assaulted me. These threads always have a good dose of 'pearl clutching' references and 'what do you think they are going to do?' faux questions to invalidate women's concerns. I don't go into toilets if I know there is a male cleaner and if an entitled man 'announced' his arrival in a woman only space I would be too frightened to challenge him, frankly. This might be considered to be 'irrational' and ridiculous because 'notallmen' obviously, but I don't see why I should have to be rational when I'm not the one barging in.

PinkyofPie · 06/07/2016 23:58

I can't believe the amount of women who go into the men's and think it's ok because they shout first Hmm just because people don't shout back it doesn't mean they're comfortable with it. What about the men who come in after you?

On a lighter note this thread reminds me of my local shopping precinct, they renovated the loos and some clever arse decided that, on re-opening, what was the ladies was now the men's (complete with urinals) and vice versa. So loads of people, used to the old layout, didn't feel the need to look at the sign and went in the wrong loos. Lots of confusion and jumping and "sorrys", turning round swiftly and bashing into each other like lemmings. It was perhaps the most British display of awkwardness I've ever seen Grin

WhatWouldLeslieKnopeDo · 06/07/2016 23:58

I just don't understand how people can think it's OK to use the "wrong" facilities just because they feel like it.

Currently our loos are separated by sex/gender. For most adults this is perfectly straightforward. Obviously young children who need to be accompanied should be allowed to go in with their parent.

If people have an issue with the way loos are separated then they should campaign about it or something. You can't just decide to use facilities that aren't for you Confused

ivykaty44 · 06/07/2016 23:59

Why would it matter

Go to France and they have unisex loos, you get to walk past the urinals on the way to a cubicle

What is the big deal?

The ladies loos are rows if cubicles

UnderTheGreenwoodTree · 06/07/2016 23:59

I have never seen this. I'm 45.

DH would never do this. If I'm around, he gets me to take dd, because men's toilets are generally more manky.

If I'm not around, he would take her to the mens.

Now that she's 8, he stands outside and let's her go in herself.

WhatWouldLeslieKnopeDo · 07/07/2016 00:01

Flowers midcenturymodern I'm really sorry that happened to you

PinkyofPie · 07/07/2016 00:01

For those asking "why does it matter" read the last paragraph of mids post. For roughly the same reasons I feel exactly the same

And I'm not in fucking France, if I was I'd expect to see men, but in a ladies loo I do not expect to see them. Why is this so hard to grasp? Hmm

PurpleDaisies · 07/07/2016 00:01

Go to France and they have unisex loos, you get to walk past the urinals on the way to a cubicle

What is the big deal?

The clue is in the name-unisex loos. You are expecting men to be there. You are not expecting men in the women's toilet.

MrTiddlestheFatCat · 07/07/2016 00:02

So, I've never seen a man in the ladies loo, and my own Father always used to just send me in on my own (I think...didn't take notes at the time).

I would be alarmed at a lone male entering female toilets, but if he had a daughter, I could easily understand it. There's really no difference between a man in the next cubicle hearing me have a wee or a woman imo. Not like we all sit on an open air communal piss pot and dance around topless in there. Never been in a mans toilet while they've been doing their business so can't comment. Assume it is equally discrete. Having cleaned both, men's are definitely smellier and would prefer to wee in the women's...

UnderTheGreenwoodTree · 07/07/2016 00:04

Everywhere I've been to in France - and that's many places, loos, service stations, restaurants, they have ladies and gents. Apart from those roadside, standalone horrors, which you only use in a real emergency...

PurpleDaisies · 07/07/2016 00:06

There's really no difference between a man in the next cubicle hearing me have a wee or a woman imo*

There's no difference for you, fine. But why should women who don't feel comfortable with men being somewhere they shouldn't be have to put up with this? There are people on the thread who've been sexually assaulted and are unhappy with men being in the women's loos. What about their right to pee in peace? [that's not a sentence k ever thought I'd type!]

MrTiddlestheFatCat · 07/07/2016 00:09

PurpleDaisies was actually just coming back to add that although I would be fine with it, I don't think its a good idea because not everyone is fine with it and its a shared space.

BertrandRussell · 07/07/2016 00:09

What about younger girls or teeagers who might be mortified to find a man there? What about Muslim women?

Have a bit of empathy!

PinkyofPie · 07/07/2016 00:14

YY Bert

I remember not long ago on a thread about trans people in toilets, a woman said her 7or8yo DD had very low confidence and didn't ever want to use the toilets on her own. After a great deal of encouragement and support she plucked up the courage to do it and came out upset as a man, who was "male presenting" (not trans) came in when she was in and it shocked and frightened her. They ended up back at square one.

It's disappointing that you have to point out to adults that their situation and feelings do not speak for everyone else on the planet. And is it so hard to realise why exactly women might be uncomfortable with men in ladies toilets? If you're 100% fine with it consider yourself quite privileged

ErrolTheDragon · 07/07/2016 00:18

More unisex loos help, but it beats me why only a few places like malls seem to have parent and child loos - big enough to take in more than one kid and a buggy and of course the changing mat. Maybe I'm out of date as my dd is 17 now but I can't remember ever seeing a p&c loo in places which get loads of parents & children eg zoos and museums.

2nds · 07/07/2016 00:22

I also have ibs but considering disabled loos are often doubled up as baby changing facilities and also used by able-bodied people when there are queues for the other loos I think there should really be stricter laws about disabled toilets. I for one would like to see baby changing tables be banned from disabled loos wherever possible to at least try to free up the disabled loos a bit.

Twice in the last few months I've held up a disabled person because the only baby changing facility was in a disabled loo.

2nds · 07/07/2016 00:23

Errol some shopping centres have brilliant parent and child rooms, intu shopping centres have them.

MrTiddlestheFatCat · 07/07/2016 00:23

Didn't even think of parent and child loos Errol, I have never seen them anywhere but they are perhaps a good idea?

I meant in no way to offend by saying that I personally was 'fine' with it. I don't feel privileged to be able to say that really- I was raped in a portable toilet aged 15, the most horrific experience of my life- but it's not something I would associate with a Dad taking his daughter to the toilet. But that is just my own personal experience, and as I said, I don't think its a good idea because its a shared space designated for women, and therefore it is wrong to impose your own rules upon it and assume everyone thinks the same as you.

Florrieboo · 07/07/2016 00:24

It's like a parallel universe here. What are you all doing in the ladies that would make you so horrified to see a man coming in with his daughter? Putting on your lipstick? fixing your foundation? washing your hands? What is the drama with an adult male being there at the same time?

Unisex toilets are the only way forward, a lot of this hand wringing could be avoided if people knew to expect people of the opposite sex in the sacred area that we wee and poo in.

VioletBam · 07/07/2016 00:30

I don't mind at all. I was in a public loo yesterday with DD in the same cubicle when a man came in with his 4 kids.....two were girls and two boys. He stood at the entrance just inside so he could see...the youngest boys were small...like 4 or 5 and the girls were about 8 or 9.

He apoligised to me when I came out and said "There's just so many of them and I don't like leaving the girls on their own" we were in a big city....I said "Not at all! It's fine." and it was.

I don't mind. Just as I don't mind trans women sharing "my" toilet.

BertrandRussell · 07/07/2016 00:36

really doesn't help when people people use words like "freak out" or "appalled" hen nobody has or is. I would just prefer that designated women's spaces are not used by men. And while I am indeed an adult woman and would not personally be at all bothered at the idea of a man in the next cubicle, it is a) the principle of the thing and b) there are some women who for whatever reason would find it very upsetting indeed. You may think they are being irrational, but that's their business. It is a women only space and they have a right not to find men in it.

Original poster
laurenwiltxx · 07/07/2016 00:40

No, everyone I do actually see the issue with it. But I'm just trying to weigh up pros and cons. Alot of toilets now are mixed with designated cubicles and no urinals, so everything is quite private as is in the ladies anyway. And I'm talking aged between 2 and 5. If a guy takes his daughter in a cubicles washes her hands and leaves I really don't see the issue. Or am I oblivious to women outside cubicles with their bits on show. And its different taking your son into the ladies as the ladies is all private and cubicled off. And its different seeing your own parents as your accustomed to it. And definitely not appropriate to send them in with a stranger. I don't think it should be done willy nilly, but if there isn't a family or "accessible" (to please the people who are uptight about PC) then it will have to be done. I'm not saying everyone should agree.

OP posts:
KittensandKnitting · 07/07/2016 00:48

So maybe I didn't explain it fully, DP didn't from what he describes to me didn't go barging into the ladies loo, he was at a loss mostly what to do. He wasn't allowed to use the disabled loo more often than not and had a daughter who didn't want to go into the men's. He has a responsibility to his daughter and wanted to watch over her, What's he supposed to do? according to most people here he should have dragged his daughter into the men's loo when she didn't want to go. Ok I understand it's a "woman's" space but male attendants often go into the type of spaces he took his daughter into, he didn't barge in, announced himself felt bloody embarrassed about it but his daughter came first - if it's a male attended loo the don't see the difference between a dad overseeing his child in the toilet and a man cleaning it.

I've been in the loo with a small child in the cubical next to me struggling and as I left found a dad outside, and said your daughter needs you and said to him go in she's struggling.

It's not that a man is "using" the space, they are attending to a small child, don't see the issue really.

It's not a woman changing room