Brexit rage

[holeinyourhead]

What's happened in the last 10 days has really affected me. It's all I think about tbh and I feel so enraged at seeing the politicians lie to us so lavishly then bail on us so swiftly, yet I'm completely powerless to do anything. I marched, I wrote to my MP, I've signed petitions. I'm obviously one of the 48% who wanted to remain. I can't find fault with the 52% who voted to leave, it's not their fault. It's a democratic process, I understand that of course. Everyone's entitled to their view and it's not that I'm a sore loser. But the catastrophic fallout isn't what even the most hardline leave voter would have wished for, there's no Brexit plan, and the future looks very bleak. I was at a conference today and a Conservative MP and a Brussels Eurocrats both agreed a recession in the medium term is now inevitable. People around me seem to be getting on with things - I wish I could too - but I've been very tearful and sleepless and worried sick. I run a European business just out of start up phase, employing a handful of people who by chance are not British born and who are now very nervous themselves about the future. The more I read the more hopeless I feel with each passing resignation. AIBU to feel like this? Does anyone else feel the same? Am I going nuts?!! I feel very alone.

Jeffrey I couldn't agree with you more. Our media includibg the BBC is a national disgrace focused on sensationalism not truth.

Blaming the media is just a bit silly.

Don't lump the likes of the daily mail with a station like BBC Radio 4/5. These are excellent

Contrary to middle class beliefs the great unwashed outside London don't believe everything they read in the papers either

Contrary to popular belief people outside London wash.

I am an educated person living outside London and find it very difficult to find written articles in the media that are sensible and balanced. The Guardian is every bit as bad as the DM in my opinion, particularly at the moment. And as for BBC 1. So other than radio 4 which only a minority of people listen to (and convenient it's all spoken so we can't link) I would like to know where these grear unwashed get their information from in written form. They are obviously way ahead of me there.

The great unwashed is an expression and clearly doesn't mean those like me don't wash

I am amazed that anyone really searches for balance in the written press as they all serve a master. Of course the Guarduan is as daft and biased as the mail, mirror and sun. They are comics. Amusing and funny sometimes but not serious news givers.

As a great unwashed myself living in much maligned brum I Listen to radio 5 live. Highly recommended for news coverage and analysis.

It's not the whole picture to say it was the haves versus the have nots and presumably anyone who says it is, ignoring all the evidence to the contrary, is doing so to fit some kind of agenda.

Brexit got the wealthy pensioner vote in several counties. It did not get the young urban vote. It did not get Lanarkshire, Scotland- one of the largest most deprived areas in the uk - it did get the booming south east...

Hsstheworldgonemad, that's exactly it, in a nutshell.

But as I'm wfh today I may give radio 4 a go so at least that's some kind of tip .

The vast majority of pensioners are not wealthy and not all young people are poor.

it did not get the young urban vote
How could you possibly know this?

Not all the south east is booming by any means. Huge problems in rural areas of Kent etc. Cornwall and Devon massively forgotten by Westminster.

This was clearly a vote to kick the ruling class up the arse.

basic radio 4 is great but a tad London based.

I don't understand the justification for statements like this: "If you are concerned about immigration and the dumbing down of local wages you are racist and thick"

The figures I've seen show that the areas in the UK with the highest proportions of immigrants were more likely to vote remain. The lower the proportion if immigrants living in the area - the more likely the area was to vote Leave.

So whatever the perceptions of people who voted Leave, it doesn't seem to be based on the reality of the numbers of immigrants.

Scotland always want to kick the Westminster government up the arse and will always blame English politicians for its woes even with its own assembly.

I was responding to this: It was about our divided society, the haves and the have nots and the feeling that the south east and London elite have no idea and couldn't care less how those in the midlands or the north or in poorer rural areas live.

Most of the south east voted Brexit
Many areas in the north inc Liverpool, Manchester, Scotland voted remain but hey.
Of course not all pensioners are wealthy but how do you account for the wealthy pensioner Brexit vote in the home counties?
Still why stick to the facts when there's a much simpler narrative?

Depends upon the immigrants.

High earning educated immigrants in London and other urban areas can't be compared with skilled manual labourers and labourers who have impacted on communities like West Bromwich and Peterborough.

But hey carry on and don't listen. That's how brexit happened.

But hey carry on and don't listen. That's how brexit happened

Well that's true. we were all told the economy would turn to shit, but hey..who cares when we can be 'free'?
Good times everyone!

how do you account for the wealthy pensioner vote in the home counties I can't and neither can you unless you were watching who voted which way!

The Home Counties has its share of deprivation and poverty. For pensioners and young families alike.

What agenda?

Look free movement is fantastic for say a young professional architect who can go abroad abs make lots of money. Money protects you from the problems of school places, GP appointments, job security and housing. Life is great.

If you are a low skilled lad living in say the West Midlands the traditional jobs have gone. You train as a plumber or bricki abs find middle class folk would rather pay a polish or Hungarian worker cash in hand. They charge less and work longer hours.

They have families and these families need houses, schools and medical attention all of which are stretched. You can't get in the housing ladder that's a dream, you can't rent.

Who are you going to blame?

Free movement is brilliant for big business as they have endless supply of cheap labour, it's great for the educated as they can move and exploit. It's great for the middle classes who employ cheap nannies and gardeners/plumbers etc.

It's shit for those at the bottom of the pile.

And this isn't personal. I am just as worried for my 4 kids futures as the rest now but if you don't understand why people voted out you can't rebuild a divided society.

But genuinely, that is only one analysis. I live in Brexit heartlands - Thames Estuary - over 7 million people of the brexit vote was from here - these are not the forgotten people of the North. The many people I have spoke to voted out because of Muslims and Poles. Too many immigrants. Yes, really. These are not poor people.

What are you going to do about them to make their lives better?

The stats show a divide yes: but not simply of class, but of age and a divide of education. It is not simply a haves versus have nots. I think that kind of thinking IS a big mistake - and simply not true.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/brexit-towns-see-their-factories-shut-xdsls56sl

Unfortunately, this will be the reality of Brexit.

A recession is a very real fear, lack of investment in the UK, job losses.

But hey, you voted out the immigrants. Well done.

Although Port Talbot workers may feel differently. Please don't link to 'no guarantees' articles I know it isn't all sorted out. But the lower level of the pound has contributed to some degree of hope.

What I don't get with the idea that the poor people struggling with immigration impacting on their jobs - although I believe it was a big factor - is why the poor people think that by getting immigrants out the bosses won't just pay them the minimum wage instead?

Also, who is going to have the money to set up factories etc when we have so many other holes to plug?

I do understand that the poor didn't necessarily want degrees and jobs in computing or finance or law (that the middle classes see as achievement markers), however I do think many liberals have issue with the health and safety of, say mining. Now we have no EU, do any of the poor wonder if they are just going to be used as modern day slaves? If the immigrants were, why won't they take their place now there is no cheap option for business and potentially no human rights?

Port Talbot workers face uncertainty, as the company heads go into talks.

If companies are beginning to plan mothballing plants, a fortnight after the Brexit vote, we need to take notice, not just dismiss it.

I mean, it's one thing voting for heavy industry when we have the oft riled 'health and safety' from EU, but completely different when that will be gone and a fair amount of industry is then owned by the Chinese... Their track record for humane treatment of workers is not a shining example, shall we say.

If companies are beginning to plan mothballing plants, a fortnight after the Brexit vote, we need to take notice, not just dismiss it.

No one is dismissing it. But we are in a period of economic shock so it is to be expected that there will be a contraction. That is not some big post-brexit revelation. Yes people will lose their jobs because of Brexit, some people will be made reduntant for reasons other than Brexit, in time people will have jobs because of Brexit.

YANBU. I feel the same and I don't even have a business to worry about. I know other people who feel the same too. I think I'm just at the point where, depending on my mood, I'm too sad, angry, hopeless to talk about it. It's such a mess.

in time people will have jobs because of Brexit.

That's pure conjecture. Nobody can even say what Brexit will look like yet.