Brexit rage

[holeinyourhead]

What's happened in the last 10 days has really affected me. It's all I think about tbh and I feel so enraged at seeing the politicians lie to us so lavishly then bail on us so swiftly, yet I'm completely powerless to do anything. I marched, I wrote to my MP, I've signed petitions. I'm obviously one of the 48% who wanted to remain. I can't find fault with the 52% who voted to leave, it's not their fault. It's a democratic process, I understand that of course. Everyone's entitled to their view and it's not that I'm a sore loser. But the catastrophic fallout isn't what even the most hardline leave voter would have wished for, there's no Brexit plan, and the future looks very bleak. I was at a conference today and a Conservative MP and a Brussels Eurocrats both agreed a recession in the medium term is now inevitable. People around me seem to be getting on with things - I wish I could too - but I've been very tearful and sleepless and worried sick. I run a European business just out of start up phase, employing a handful of people who by chance are not British born and who are now very nervous themselves about the future. The more I read the more hopeless I feel with each passing resignation. AIBU to feel like this? Does anyone else feel the same? Am I going nuts?!! I feel very alone.

Papaya you'd imagine we were all living in a toxic, racist, burning hell hole, not one of the most tolerant (overly so) compassionate, democratic nations on the planet.

This actually not far off - burning hell hole withstanding. I don't think we have democracy. The inequalities between rich and poor are so vast UN deplores us and that is why we are so divided today. I don't think compassion is on the menu with a far right gov who are not able to confirm whether EU nationals will be allowed to stay, or even stop racism rising under their influence.

It's a downwards spiral and we have already come further than most realise.

Oh dear Jeffrey,thank goodness you are so very wrong.

This has hit my area and my friends very hard. Lives are changing on the back of it and if people can't see what policies these new wave tories want to bring in (and have been fighting for for years) and now have free reign to do, you wouldn't be so sure of compassion. If you think austerity was compassionate to the lowest classes you were part of the problem. The UN is not wrong. I happen to think you are wrong and looking through some very oddly rose tinted specs.

I hope all leavers will remember what lead to the troubles we are going to be facing. NHS closing down, bigger divides between rich and poor, scrapping of rights such as paid maternity leave, paid holiday and a drop in minimum wage. I strongly believe that within 10 years these will happen, particularly if the 'bleeding heart liberals' as we are so mockingly called by those we try to help, can't find a decent party to vote for and we end up split again.

No Brexit leaders left.

How very...poignant.

But hasn't there been a case where a paedofile couldn't be deported as he had a cat so would be against his human rights to deport him?

No. That was a big porky told by Theresa May.

As I said UKIP were rousing the lower classes to vote Tory in Brexit - only they couldn't tell them that. That is why UKIP is so strangely quiet...

May is a liar? Surely not .

Thanks Annie, I'm more worried about tm being our leader rather than brexit quite frankly.

This has hit my area and my friends very hard.

I'm sorry to hear that. But to conclude as a result it is a long term disaster for v tree while country is nonsense.

The EU is an inward looking institution. And who knows what it will even look like in 10 years?

I'm with papaya I'm embarrassed by the posts on here. My grandparents generation fought in wars. My generation are in tears over the pound diving. Recessions happen in or out of the EU.

The whole country now that was an epic predictive text fail.

Basic

If you think that Leavers' distress is primarily about the pound diving or even about the prospect of recession then you don't get it at all.
This is about identity, freedom and feeling proud of our country.

I personally won't feel as proud of my country when it leaves the rest of Europe struggling to house the homeless, ducks out of its climate-change obligations and abandons the NHS.

So many of the EU rules were actually principles that Britain has long held dear and was encouraging the rest of Europe to cherish also. Somewhere along the way, we have decided the cost was too high and our hospitality, ethics and commitment to serving the poor has disappeared in a puff of smoke.

Many generations of soldiers fought for this country from my family too. They fought to stop fascism and bring peace to Europe. That is partly why we helped to forge the EU. We just gave away their yesterday for our tomorrow. Sickening considering the fascism all over EU and in UK.

If Remain had won, would Farage have accepted the result and shut UKIP down?

Jeffrey, I agree, it's made me feel really uncomfortable both before and after the result that leave supporters were stating that they were "claiming their country back" on behalf of those that fought in WWII, no they were fighting facism, i.e. the far right. Whatever the rights and wrongs of this whole mess, I find that disrespectful to those to died.

I don't buy the hysteria line at all. I'm an EU citizen living in the UK, but as an Irish citizen I'll enjoy almost exactly the same rights as a UK citizen post Brexit, plus I and my children will retain our Irish / EU passports (husband is a Brit). In other words I personally will be fine. But I'm still gutted as an immigrant by the clear signal that I'm not welcome - this isn't just about the referendum - I've been feeling more & more like this for years. I still remember sitting laughing in a café with a Czech friend (and our respective DC1s) over a 'too many babies born to foreign mothers' story in the DM - five years ago it was just another silly DM story to laugh at. By the time I had DC2 two years ago 'too many babies born to foreign mothers' was on the frontpage of the Times. This has been brewing for ages. As an immigrant I'm aware that I'm turning inwards, having always scorned the way some Irish immigrants used to ghettoise back in the day. Its little things - getting Irish passports for the kids instead of UK ones, feeling oddly relieved when I find out the head at DC1's new school is Irish too, feeling a bit uncomfortable around older English people, a bit conscious of my accent. For example I joined a political party after the referendum, but I don't know how I could ever canvass for them or anything like that - will too many people just switch off when they hear my accent? And as an Irishperson with a PhD in modern Irish history I'm worried about Northern Ireland & the peace process. I don't want to feel like this - the UK is my home now, my life is here. And if a member of the UK's most integrated & unobtrusive immigrant community feels like this, how do others feel? The Czech friend I mentioned up post says she's tired of getting strange looks when she speaks Czech with her DH and DC in public - both parents have excellent English, they just want their DC to have Czech too

"our hospitality, ethics and commitment to serving the poor has disappeared in a puff of smoke."

I don't agree. Most people are hospitable, have a moral code, and would support serving the poor. That hasn't disappeared at all.

Haven't read the whole thread op and like you I was very scared. However now it's here, it's going to happen and we all need to support each other through the coming obviously rocky road ahead.

No one knows the future and as it could be the stupidest thing Britain ever did it could also be the best thing we ever did. History will tell.

But honestly the EU election had fuck all to do with the EU.

It was about our divided society, the haves and the have nots and the feeling that the south east and London elite have no idea and couldn't care less how those in the midlands or the north or in poorer rural areas live.

They had no credible voice in labour, and will never have until Corbyn pisses off, so they voted UKIP which promoted Caneron to dangle the EU vote to get ejected.

The papers and journalism need some codes of conduct reassessing. I honestly don't feel any of them are not biased although some more obviously than others. News should be news, not so highly spun that it can in effect look the opposite to what the actual news is - eg the Sun today printed a tiny retraction of their claim on 600k benefit tourists and the EU basically saying "suck it" - apology says it was all made up and not based on any fact. Apology is appx 3cm x 2cm, initial story covered a front page. It is all designed so people CANNOT get real news. Very frustrating and the tone, as you said, has gone very nasty over the last 10 years. Partly why no one on this site will click on a Fail link - that and the utter rubbish spewn by them. Many of the public seem to remain completely unaware though. If only I hadn't seen the Chilcot report into what the gov wanted the papers to do to back it up in advance of war being declared, I'd say there was scope for change, but again, it's just one of the government's many pawns. I will be interested to see if the papers calm down a bit now on immigrants seeing as the Tories are finally free of the EU.

That's such a bizarre way of looking at it- many wealthy areas voted brexit- London had majority remain but the entire Thames estuary (south east) (approx 7 million) voted brexit, the elderly (haves) voted brexit, the young (have nots) didn't. Manchester, Liverpool, Leeds and Scotland (have nots?) were more remain. 2/3rds of tories voted brexit - only about 1/4 labour voted brexit.

But still your narrative is that it was all about the haves v have nots? Very, very odd.

That's to should, not you Jeffrey!

I agree Jeffery. The Daily Mail is so influential and so awful. Even the BBC needs sorting, and I was always a massive supporter of their news. Their quest for 'balance' does skew things somewhat. I've not seen it, but apparently Arron Banks was given a very easy ride on the Andrew Marr show - I mean why is he even on that show? He's just a rich UKIP donator. His behaviour has been verging on criminal during the Leave campaign. In fact, several companies have threatened legal action against him.

C4 news is the one I plump for now - but I feel that's probably because it most represents my left-wing leanings I bloody love Jon Snow.

It's completely bizarre to label al the elderly as haves! And all the young as have nots ridiculous generalisation.

And odd.

That's such a bizarre way of looking at it- many wealthy areas voted brexit- London had majority remain but the entire Thames estuary (south east) (approx 7 million) voted brexit, the elderly (haves) voted brexit, the young (have nots) didn't. Manchester, Liverpool, Leeds and Scotland (have nots?) were more remain. 2/3rds of tories voted brexit - only about 1/4 labour voted brexit.

The elderly certainly aren't all "haves". There are many, many retired people struggling to meet their winter fuel bills or care costs. Not every retired citizen is relaxing in luxury or going on ski holidays every few weeks!

The young definitely aren't all "have nots". The middle-class student who raises thousands from their relatives to go on a gap year, or a "young professional" with a relatively well-paid starter job, aren't "have nots".

Manchester, Liverpool and Leeds are thriving and interesting cities. There's a range of income levels within, so I don't think you can generalise them as "haves" or "have nots".

It's lazy stereotypes that make politicians think they know and understand the electorate. They are in patronising boxes.

If you are concerned about immigration and the dumbing down of local wages you are racist and thick

Concerned about school places and GP appointments you are racist and thick and best ignored. That's because it's not an issue for the middle classes or the elite.

That's how UKIP did so well.

It's banging your head against a brick wall to try and make sucessful middle class euro supporters and those doing well out of the single market and travel/work opportunities just listen for one second.

Seems some on mumsnet think the same way and typically blame the press for brainwashing the stupid unwashed.

The free movement of people has massively helped those who can travel and work abroad, the educated.
It's been an opportunity for those in poorer countries to come here to work and although exploited they earn more than they would in Poland or Hungary.

It's massively impacted on working class estates here in the UK who cannot compete with the low wages EU migrants will work for and the hours they are prepared to do.

That's why brexit won.

This exactly sums it up.