To feel this way about my daughter?

[emmamaw]

I'm sitting here crying like a baby over my 11yo dd. I struggle to say dd - as in dear daughter. We've never really been close. Shes the eldest of 3 and often says she wishes she'd stayed an only child. She hates her younger brother (8) and often loses patience and snaps at her baby sister (3). I think she hates me too. The way she speaks to us all is dreadful. I know children are self-centered but she really has no care or consideration for anyone in this house. Every day I wake up dreading what mood shes going to be in. All she cares about is going on the phone/tablet/pc to talk to her best friend and watch videos. I know thats probably pretty normal but if anything gets in the way of that the whole household suffers. If she doesnt want to go somewhere she will purposefully ruin the whole day. We sometimes have to leave her behind when we do day trips etc. just so that the other dc dont miss out. Its like she hates the world around her and wants everyone to know it. Shes always saying she wishes she could go and live with her best friends family, and I truly believe she means it.
This morning I said we would go to town after school, just the two of us, to buy her holiday clothes, as she says she hates what I buy for her and really kicks off if I make her wear them. She shrugged her shoulders and said 'whatever'. Then i found some new underwear I'd bought her hidden behind her bed. When i asked her about it she looked me straight in the eye, and with utter contempt said 'i dont want to wear anything you buy me, and i dont want to go anywhere with you, ever!' I just saw red and smacked her. It scares me sometimes the hate that boils up inside me. I just feel so wretched over her. Shes been like this for years and weve tried everything we can think of. I have great relationships with my partner and other two dcs. I just feel like she ruins everything. She hates me and nothing i do seems to change that. I dread coming home from work and often stay late because I know there'll be trouble as soon as i walk in. I cant live like this for the next seven or whatever years.
How do you learn to live with someone who hates you?

I know its hard but you've got to do your best to try and keep starting again.its been years you said and you can hear the strain its having in your writing. and obviously rightly so I'm not saying that.please don't think I'm belittling what she I s doing.but if you need to fix this family situation then you need to be able actually for you too,to let it all go each day and start again.
you can hear it slal pent up on top of you.the hate,fear and stress.but this like it or not will be focused right at her,at urself and others.you wont be able to stop it.the stress will come out in other way stopping you live any kind of life.
so keep trying to think right I can do this,ive got to keep going.
your an adult her mum and I truly believe,ive got to believe that means something. I think there has t be so much love otherwise you wouldn't be so bothered and upset. you can do this.
keep trying.trying again.each new day.
the worst thing in life when weve been shits is to have to thrown bak in our faces. you have to find a way to keep starting fresh until something sticks.
little by little.
just saying hi.asking her bout her day.as she leaves the room say you love her.not expecting anything (maybe expecting hate )back but saying it.trust me at our worst this filters in. the one liners they make all the difference when someones billowing insdie with confusion.on both sides.

OP please forgive me if I seem harsh. I like many other posters it would seem have been your daughter. She knows that you find her difficult, I know I did. You might think that you treat all your children the same, but I can bet my life if you asked her she would tell you that you don't. She doesn't hate you, yet. She desperately wants your attention and has probably decided that bad attention is better than none.
Please stop criticising her appearance, it was done to me for years. My hair was always too messy, my outfit was wrong, as I got older my boobs always on display, my clothes didn't fit right because I was too fat. It was constant criticism and it was awful. I can't believe that you actually think your 11 year old looks like a tramp

Leaving her behind will on enforce in her mind that she is the least wanted and important person in her family. Stop doing that.
I'm not saying her behaviour is acceptable and I'm not claiming to be able to help you change it, I can only point out your behaviour that had left me not speaking to many father for over 5 years.

It's a vicious circle, isn't it? You are trapped in a situation where you both expect hate from each other and your dd is endlessly proving to herself that you still hate her, really, and vice versa. If she pokes enough at you, the hate and fear comes out - you don't just lose your temper, you feel you hate her and then that feeling lingers as you dwell on how she gets in the way of your happy family and is a threat to it. Unfortunately, children can smell insincerity a mile off. You can't get her to believe you love her if you aren't really feeling it when you say it, she'll just get the feeling you are trying to keep her under control and exercise damage limitation, instead.

What do you actually love about your dd?

also don't be hard on yourself.to me it sound like your fraught with the pain this has and is bringing.to me that means your a good thoughtful person. tell yourself that. allow the spaces for her to join in.but don't dwell if she doesn't. I'm having faith that at this age she cant be evil!! so it has to be atime and effort and love thing.xx

I have two dd's the eldest is 23 and the youngest 13 and I think what I have learned is that the lashing out is a way of testing your love for them. It's almost as if they are feeling insecure in your love so they make themselves appear unlovable so they can reassure themselves that they are right and you don't love them enough.
By being unswerving in your love for them and reassuring them that you love them regardless of how they feel lessens the need to lash out.
It doesn't have to be grand gestures, a hug when they get home,showing interest in what they are interested in, cooking their favourite food (I made lots of cake and shortbread), a chocolate bar or a magazine for no reason, suggesting a film night with a new dvd and popcorn, a lush bath bomb, cute stationery,hot chocolate and cake in a cafe just the two of you, small regular acts to demonstrate that you think they are great.
When they know they are well loved they act more lovable has been my experience.
I agree though that it sounds like you need some professional help but in the meantime maybe you could have a go at showing her you love her no matter what.

Dd2 and I had a rocky time between perhaps 10 and 12 - which she will now actually refer to as a different era. I don't know what goes on at that particular stage, but it does seem like a difficult one for many girls and their mothers.

I did used to get tremblingly angry, and I think there were periods where we really weren't functional - I was always shouting, she seemed remote and shut off and really just as though she didn't love me at all.

I tried hard not to criticise, not to make a big deal of things, and to ride it out. We did spend time doing things together, and I suspect that when you come home and dd kicks off worse than ever, at some level she's testing to see whether you still love her when she's being a pain as well as when you're doing the treats and she's behaving well. Still say goodnight and give her a kiss, even if she is mutinous. Still say you love her.

At 11, whether you know it or not, it's desperately important to know your mum loves you. If you try your hardest to breathe deeply and ride through this, and accept it as what is quite likely to be a stage, I think there is a good chance you'll have an unrecognizable relationship with her when she comes out the other side. DD is now 15 and 97% of the time an absolute gem. But if you decide now on a narrative in which she's troubled/awful/your relationship will never work, it's hard not to let that narrative become determining.

Get some family therapy. Don't mess about with the GP or CAMHS. Go to the BACP website and find someone local. This is a family and parenting issue not just a DD issue.

It's wrong that you hit her, OP. She is 11 years old and she might have been rude and hurtful, but you're the adult here. There is no excuse for violence and you're giving her really bad messages.

I also wonder where she stays on the days when you leave her at home? Does she have anyone to look out for her or is she at home alone?

You can't go on avoiding the situation by delaying your arrival home from work - what about your other DC, apart from anything?

Is your DP her father?

This sounds like a horrible situation but your DD can't change it - you're the parents; it's your responsibility. Please get help urgently.

corythatwas thanks for your post - just realised your DM sounds like me, will pay attention next time I'm shopping with DD1!

Where is her father in this? (I'm guessing your partner is not her father from the way you describe)

Funny that isn't even mentioned, when it is bound to be relevant.

This is the sort of situation that family therapy was invented for. If you can go private, do so asap, as CAHMS waiting lists are horrific. If you can't afford it, then it's to GPs and a referral to CAHMS. In the meantime, try to implement some if the excellent advice you got on this thread. Just ignore the tangential squabbling about hair brushing and underwear shopping. Good luck!

KeepCoolCalmAndCollected Wed 29-Jun-16 13:25:00

"CORY - It's no big deal (USUALLY) for mothers to brush their daughter's her in a close relationship at that young age. The OP was simply demonstrating that her daughter won't have it - ie. it's another form of rejection. "

That is making it all about the mother. The fact is that for whatever reason they do not have the close relationship you descrive and the dd does not want this physical closeness. She is at an age where her desire for bodily autonomy needs to be respected.

"And why is it inappropriate for a mother to insist on guiding her (not physically) but through persuasion if her 11 year old daughter's body care is awful??"

This is not just about body care: she said her dd's KeepCoolCalmAndCollected Wed 29-Jun-16 13:25:00

"CORY - It's no big deal (USUALLY) for mothers to brush their daughter's her in a close relationship at that young age. The OP was simply demonstrating that her daughter won't have it - ie. it's another form of rejection. "

That is making it all about the mother. The fact is that for whatever reason they do not have the close relationship you descrive and the dd does not want this physical closeness. She is at an age where her desire for bodily autonomy needs to be respected.

"And why is it inappropriate for a mother to insist on guiding her (not physically) but through persuasion if her 11 year old daughter's body care is awful??"

She said her dd "does have shocking taste" as well as poor grooming- so this is not just about hygiene; it also seems to cover taste in clothes- and does not make the OP come across as a very tolerant or open person. Besides, I would be interested to know what the OP means by grooming: is it just basic hygiene or is it about expressing a certain female image that the OP thinks is the only correct one?

To cajole an insecure teen into better hygiene, you need to have established yourself as a generally tolerant and sensible adult whose views are about common sense and general societal acceptability, not just "my personal preference is the only way".

Every Behaviour has a reason behind it. Your Daughter is communicating something To you. It just needs unpicking.

It really needs an urgent referral to some form of counselling service. Be it camhs, school counsellor etc. Make the call asap.

OP. Where is her Dad? You said you're together and have family days out. What is his relationship with her like? How does he see things? I'm amazed no one is asking!
It sounds very hard and I think you need professional help as a family.

Are you sure you're not overlooking external difficulties your daughter may be suffering from? Bullying etc. You mention she is on the pc a lot, do you monitor what she is actually doing?

How often do you tell her you love her? How often do you praise her? If you don't, do it. If you do it, do it more.

She'a a little girl and she needs to know her mum loves and values here.

Don't limit her options - why does it matter if she wears clothes you don't like, Unless she stinks and has filthy hair, grooming isn't that much of an issue. I am guessing that peer pressure will be more effective at changing that than you will be.

I am guessing there is a big dose of sibling rivalry here - she was 5 when baby no 2 came along (old enough to get used to being an only), and just got used to the status quo when baby no 3 came along. With the best will in the world a new baby takes the lions share of the attention from mum and she had to cope with that twice. How do her siblings relate to her?

My 3 year old picks her own clothes!

I opened this thinking it would help me with my daughter..as I said..3..who is providing some challenging times at the minute.

Do you actually talk to your daughter as person, valuable in her own right? (ie not an extension of you, not just a 'child', not just a sibling etc) By 11, kids are fairly mature ime. She clearly has picked up that you don't like her (or her behaviour) and is reaching out - albeit in a challenging way.
I
I think you need more time with her, not less. I'd be paying out for childcare etc if it were me - packing your other kids off somewhere so you can have some bonding time. Why doesn't she have much street sense by age 11? What have you been doing/not doing with her?

OP for her hairbrushing, it's possible she's sensory defensive. If you haven't already tried, please get a tangle teezer, not a knock-off. They don't pull the hair the same way an ordinary brush or comb does and have transformed the ability and desire to self-care in this household.

Is her hair curly? If so, she may find if it's straightened, it's less bother to take care of, straight hair doesn't get the knots in it like curly does.

Behaviour - have you read Ross Greene's book the Explosive Child and seen his website?
www.livesinthebalance.org/parents-families

"In too many settings, behaviorally challenging kids are still poorly understood, and treated in ways that are punitive, adversarial, reactive, unilateral, ineffective, and counterproductive. This scenario places these kids at serious risk for a variety of adverse outcomes. Thanks to the sizeable body of research that has accumulated over the past 50 years, significant progress has been made in our understanding of the factors underlying challenging behavior, and points toward lagging skills (rather than lagging motivation) as the key factor."

Just to be clear she is not left alone - she stays with family or goes to her best friends. Her choice. The hair brushing thing is because shell just stick a bobble in for school and its really messy. She doesnt brush it properly so it gets tatty and matted. I dont believe that allowing that to happen is apropriate.

Im sorry but she sounds a spoilt brat n i wouldnt allow that shes treating you like dirt and its not deserves you sound a great mum but shes forgetting who the parent is i wouldnt pander to her any longer and nip this in the bud by being harder on her

The thing is with her hair at 11 it should be her choice. If you approach her with the attitude that her hair is a mess and she has done a bad job she is bound to be defensive. You need to turn a blind eye to the hair and leave well alone unless or until she asks for your help.
Does she want her hair styled the way it is? Does she perhaps do a bad job because she doesn't want to have to tie it back? Sometimes you have to look at what a behaviour is saying to you rather than the behaviour itself.

You don't have to accept her treating you like this. If she is rude or spoils a day out refusing to get out of the car, take her phone away for a day. Yes you need to work on your relationship and that means staying calm, doing fun stuff together, reassuring her that you love her etc etc. but you won't do the situation any favours by letting her run the show.