To ask why JC won't resign for the good of the party

[AndNowItsSeven]

Could anyone explain why JC won't resign given that Labour has a strong chance of winning a possible Autumn general election, if but only if Labour has a strong leader.

No I didn't mean they were anti establishment.

They were inexperienced.

Inexperienced does not mean incompetent though, it's ageist and narrow-minded to believe that.

Not sure I agree, Basil. I think they were calculatedly made unaware of the self-harm aspects. And you can't get much more deeply entrenched in the establishment than Gove, Johnson and Farage. Sure, Farage might do his, "Look at me, the common man with my pints and my fags," schtick, but he's a privately educated ex banker like so many others in the government, as you know.

What BeyondTelling, Honeyroar, Hubris etc said. We need someone who us principled. I don't think there would be much point voting for a Labour if they don't stand for Labour values.

Brown had been Chancellor for seemed like a gazillion years before he was PM - not inexperienced. Blair was in a Shadow Cabinet and something in foreign affairs for a Select Cmte for ages prior to being PM.

And words aren't meaningless. They always mean something.

And yes, there is a political elite and if you don't think so, if you honestly think that we live in some sort of egalitarian democracy where there is no such thing as marginalisation and elitism, then there's not a lot to say tbh.

JC isn't trusted by his own team. His own team aren't trusted by the membership. The membership aren't trusted by the electorate.

Something has to give, and as much as I like JC and his principles he just can't deliver a GE victory.

Oh of course Jilly, they are part of the political elite.

Also Brown had never been chancellor, he'd never been in government before, Labour had been out of government for years before 1997, most of the front bench had no ministerial experience at all.

How short memories are.

I think you might be right Pan. JC may not be able to deliver a Labour victory.

But I don't think the people who have manoevred against him today instead of manoevring against the Tories, can either.

It'll be interesting to see what happens in the next few weeks.

And here's a more positive view of Corbyn's chances.

Oddly, manoevering against JC can be seen as doing so against the Tories i.e. giving us a reasonable stab at unseating them. iyswim

But yes, it's v unsatisfactory and counter-intuitive imo and 'interesting'. Which is another word for 'a bit shit right now'.

JC didn't 'deliver' the 2 thirds I'm afraid. The sense that to Remain was best did that. He has always been a sceptic of Europe and was fairly lukewarm in the campaign.

Whether he is or he isn't effective, the main point is he appears grossly lack lustre. We desperately need a strong opposition leader helping to oppose and support the Government where necessary as we come out of the EU. Hilary Benn was raised on Politics and has given some stirring speeches. He would be my no one choice.

Yes but they can only possibly think that forcing JC out against the wishes of the membership will give them a chance of an electoral victory, if they are entirely disconnected from their grass roots.

Which of course, they are.

He needs to stay.

There isn't anyone else who can do what he does.

Well yes, the PLP is more 'connected' to the electorate than the grass roots are.
And worse is, for me, I can't think of a more suited person in the S Cabinet that represents my view than JC. All else means saying 'okaaay' through gritted teeth. Poss Tom Watson but he is too closely related to JC now.

Which is what exactly, Maddy?

I find it rather bizarre he won't go as I suspect he does not the support of the country,his approach does come over as quite arrogant for not this and the Syrian air strikes

Not just the

He is incredibly arrogant will blatantly lie but won't leave because he was voted to be party leader and feels he should honour those that voted for him most because they believed he was an honest man

He failed in the local elections and failed terribly in the referendum

I'd always thought of him as earnest rather than arrogant. I think he's bloody minded enough to stand again if it comes down to it. At some point the unions that back him are going to have to decide if they want to force the issue and risk a PLP breakaway.

New Labour has been taken so Labour Democrats? Maybe a whole new brand.

It is not just the Unions backing him, it was an incredible swelling of popular support from those of us who have no faith in the current political system. It is corrupt, focused on media soundbites not consideration of issues and facts, run by a self-serving bunch of hypocrites who would sell their own grannies to grab more power and wealth. I don't agree that New Labour lost because they weren't central enough, I think they lost because they weren't left enough. Because they were not a 'credible opposition'. Under JC we have a different voice in the heart of Westminster again, an actual real alternative to the ruling 'austerity is the only way' agenda. These Blairite Tory-lite idiots are the ones damaging the party, not him.

Over 13 million people voted Labour in 1997 to put Labour into power.

Over 9 million people voted for Labour under Ed Milliband in 2015 even though they lost the election very badly.

Labour has a membership of under 400,000 people.

'Grassroots' support of a leader doesn't get Labour anywhere.

He failed in the local elections

You mean these local elections?

They're trying to out him because he's closer to getting Blair tried for war crimes.

Murdoch runs this country (even more now) and he wants corbyn out. The only way to be a successful party leader is to be friends with Murdoch.

They lost 18 councillors.