to still not know how to vote in the referendum?

[princessconsuelabannahammock]

To my shame i have never voted but i really want to on this issue, its about time i actively participated.

I have done a lot of reading on the subject however i am still unsure. The basic problem is that i dont trust any of the politicians to do what they say.

I am not too bothered by immigration - i live in an area where it hasnt had a massive effect and i think that a certain level of immigration is needed.

I can see (and have worked with EU funding) some of the benefits of EU funding. I think some of the red tape has improved workers rights, environmental issues etc.

I think some of the economic guess work of brexit is purely that and is possibly looking too short term, yes there maybe bumps but what about further down the line.

I think that the EU gets blamed by the government for things that they want to deflect from their actions. Yes i have problems with getting a drs app but i think that is due to under funding not immigration.

I have concerns with the way the EU is run and the lack of accountability. I dont believe our government have the power to put our interests first in the face of EU demands.

I have watched the debates and read up but i am still so unsure.

I don't trust any of the politicians either, but least of all the Brexit camp.

They have no coherent plan that I can discern for what will happen if Brexit wins.

I wouldn't trust Boris, Gove and Farage to organise a piss-up in a brewery, much less finalise and set up all of these fantastic trade deals that they would have us believe the rest of the world will be tripping over themselves to offer us!

I am a Remainer.

I saw something today that urged the undecided to vote Remain on the basis that if we do stay in the EU then later decide that we wish to leave then another referendum could be held but if we vote to Leave then there will be no coming back from it. Not sure if this helps and obviously biased towards the Remain camp which I am definitely in.

If you're unsure, then the 'safe' option is to vote Remain. 'Leave' is an unknown quantity.

I just posted this link as it might help you make up your mind...

www.strongerin.co.uk/unprecedented_support_for_britain_remaining_in_europe_from_economists_scientists_and_academic_experts#2mwx1ZwJzcijJJBb.97

The Leavers may high jack this thread, but in the meantime.....
OP, no need to heed "experts" make up your own mind based on principles. I stopped reading the pro & con info ages ago, and am voting based on my own beliefs.
Can you not do the same?

Remain is the safe option.

I'm still undecided - not from a lack of research on the subject either! The debates did nothing to sway me, in fact I was highly disappointed with them for the most part, no one wanted to dig into any of the issues, just make flyover statements and score points of each other. I learned nothing new from the debates.

The thing that seems to have missing in my opinion from arguments on both sides is actually a good hard look at the state of affairs in the EU and how other countries are faring right now. It only seems like half the argument to talk about the UK's economic future inside or outside the EU but not to talk about the economic state of affairs in the EU right now. It gets very little attention in the debate, yet we be committing ourselves to the EU if we remain.

I agree the politicians at the moment seem to be a particularly bad bunch - mostly either dangerously bonkers or lackluster.

We can get rid of them in the next election but the chances are if we leave the EU we will never be able to get back

Moanranger
The Leavers may high jack this thread,

How can they "high jack" a thread that is asking for their opinion?

If you aren't sure, the best way is vote for remain.

If you're unsure the status quo is the safer option compared to an irreversible decision to leave.

RAINBUNNY - my thoughts exactly. I think there is a lot of speculation about what the politicians THINK will happen to us but not a lot about the EU and how things are progressing. I think so much has changed, it has gotten so big so quickly and that causes me concern.

I am being asked to vote for something that i know little about -the EU and its future plans and its effect on us. It just seems so big, so unaccountable and so untouchable.

I can see being part of a larger community has its benefits and i worry that we are quite small and potentially insignificant, if we leave. I worry about the motives of the EU how can you have the best interests at heart for 500 million people all at the same time when we are so diverse?

I found the tv debates frustrating too as it seemed like a sound bite contest and points scoring exercise.

Does anyone have any good links to clear up any of these issues?

Thanks for all the replies so far

I think that if you haven't been convinced that the benefits of leaving outweigh the risks then you should vote to keep the status quo. This is much too big a decision to vote to leave if you are not 100% sure - imo.

Following.

I think I am a leaver. But want us to remain. But with more of a voice in the EU.

I too believe that at this stage if nothing you have heard has made up your mind then remain is your best option.
Once we leave it is not like when people divorce and can re marry each other, it is pretty much a permanent end.

I dont believe David Cameron has the power or the will to get us a good deal if we remain in the EU. He talks a good talk but i just dont believe him! I think tying our financial growth to the EU means we will be over a barrel.

I can also see that Switzerland and Norway have had to do what they are told re immigrants to get good trade deals (not overly bothered by immigration before anyone calls me a racist) but i do think we should have a say and do it at a rate that we can absorb with the extra investment and all the care that it entails to do it well.

Your first post is very similar to my thoughts and I'm voting remain.

Just to correct ifherbum, the European Commission president Jean Claude Juncker has said Out is out. There is no second referendum. He also said there would be no further concessions to the UK if they stay in. No further renegotiations. Cameron has been given the maximum concessions possible. So whether you vote Remain or Leave, the EU president says it is final.

From the Independent today:

There will be no further renegotiation of Britain’s relationship with the EU if we vote to Leave, European Commission president Jean Claude Juncker has said, stating clearly: “Out is out”.

In a last minute intervention that was seized on by both sides in the referendum debate, Mr Juncker said the Prime Minister had already “got the maximum he could receive” from his re- negotiation in February.

His statement appears to rule out any attempt by the Government to use a Leave vote as a chance to force further concessions from the EU while retaining some form of membership.

But the comments, made to reporters in Brussels on the eve of Britain’s historic In-Out referendum, were seized upon by the Leave campaign as evidence of the EU leadership’s intransigence.

Asked about the implications of a Leave victory, Mr Juncker said: “The British policymakers and British voters have to know that there will be not be any kind of renegotiation,” he said.

“We have concluded a deal with the Prime Minister, he got the maximum he could receive, we gave the maximum we could give. So there will be no kind of renegotiation, nor on the agreement we found in February, nor as far as any kind of treaty negotiations are concerned.”

“Out is out.

Add to that the fact that Obama has said that the UK will be at the back of the queue for trade agreements with the US. It has taken Sweden 40 years to get the agreement it has with the eu. Trade agreements won't be in place during my lifetime if we leave.

www.crowdpac.co.uk/eu-referendum-in-or-out

If you read the arguments for and against above each question, this should help.

Im out . Voting for what seems a "safe" option seems a bit cowardly to me

Sorry hedgehog, meant to type Remain instead of Leave! I am really going to have to watch that when I vote tomorrow...

Another divisive referendum is unlikely in our lifetime. Unless there is any major game changer like another large country breaking out of the EU.
My point poorly made earlier was really that if you vote to Remain, there is no negotiation from within for better conditions. This is as good as it gets.

As the polls are around 50-50 either way I'm not sure "hijack" is the right word for Leave supporters joining the thread

Anyhow, I'd just say that "remain" is just as much an unknown as "leave".

ifherbum