Stop Moaning! You had your chance to change things and now you've Blown It.

[iwuddarryl]

If Remain wins, for years to come, whenever something goes wrong, be it lack of housing, overcrowding, not enough school places, cuts in social benefits, lack of work, etc etc etc,
People will get told:

You had your chance, a once in a lifetime chance to change things and gain back control. So don't go complaining now that things have eventually gone tits up.

That's going to happen. Isn't it?

you read it here first

There has been so much deliberate dishonesty in this campaign, and if the Leave campaign win, I think they will need to be held to account when their lies are exposed.

And no lies whatsoever from Camp Remain? Please

Can I point out that Johnson, Gove, and Farage will be no more in charge after a leave vote than they are now.

A leave vote will be hugely beneficial for their political careers and we could well see Boris as PM on the back of a leave vote. If you think that a leave vote won't exacerbate their influence at the very least, you're naive.

The defining characteristic of the entire debate is that there are almost no facts at all to go on

In a sense this is true. But at the same time, a raft of experts in every field have looked closely at the various possible scenarios that could result from a leave vote and the likelihood of our encountering them. This is not a time to vote with your heart. It's a time to listen carefully to what the experts are saying and weigh that up for yourself. It's unusual to have such a consensus on any issue as there has been against leaving the EU at this time.

Purits unelected technocrats also have a hefty role in UK government unconnected to the EU. You vote for a member of the European parliament in the European elections - both the EU and the UK have unelected technocrats as well as elected politicians.

Tbf you can vote to influence all of those issues at the next general election. Because despite all that's been said its our own government causing the vast majority of problems for the country.

BartholinsSiste
Please don't vote thinking that. We would never get back into the EU on the terms we have. If it happened at all, it would be to our disadvantage and would entail enormous losses for us.

both the EU and the UK have unelected technocrats as well as elected politicians
Quite. Ever heard of the House of Lords?

You vote for a member of the European parliament in the European elections ... who cannot set their own agenda. They can only vote on proposals put forward by the Commission. They cannot initiate anything.

"This is not a time to vote with your heart. It's a time to listen carefully to what the experts are saying and weigh that up for yourself."
the problem is that the experts have been systematically undermined as part of the 'elite v. working class' narrative.

Brexit is a fake revolt – working-class culture is being hijacked

I was thinking this morning that there's no way this would go well, we are already a divided state.

If Remain wins, half of the population will be unsettled, racism wil soar and we may sleep walk into the extreme right.

If Leave wins, we will be economically screwed up for a while before the Union breaks up.

Vote with your heart... Exactly, because countries are run better with passion than with reason.

That sounds so Donald Trump "you are right to be angry, let's go and destroy what took hundreds of years to built" (and by that I am meaning cultural tolerance, not the EU)

Ever heard of the House of Lords?

I have heard a lot of people say that they like the idea of the EU acting as a restraint on our politicians. Funny how they never say that about the HoL.
Commons wins over HoL, precisely because they are elected. HoL may stall things and make the Commons think again, but Commons wins.

Love Einstein's quote Fatrascals

Women would be trampled on if we let the crazy exit brigade win.

Where do you get that idea from? Women are half the population, politicians need to keep their electorate sweet.

purits unless your constituency MP is on the cabinet you are not voting for policy under the current UK electoral system and more (or less) than under the EU elections. The leader of the commission president is nominated by the elected leaders of the EU member states and needs the support of the majority of members of the EU parliament to be elected. He or she then chooses the commission members the same way the UK prime minister chooses their own cabinet.

Yes MPs can table motions outside the cabinet system, but ministers are the policy makers and are chosen unilaterally by the head of the government, not directly chosen by the national electorate in the UK to be the "big guns" either.

Women would be trampled on if we let the crazy exit brigade win.

Here's what that nice Mr Farage has to say on the subject:
www.ibtimes.co.uk/nigel-farage-explains-why-women-are-worth-less-men-1433055

fwiw I think remain will win by a narrow majority. At the next general election Labour will do even worse and UKIP will do very well.

Probably best for me to stay off FB today and in the next few days.

I've just looked at the EU website to check my facts. The Commission are all appointed. The electorate have no say in this. But I love this gem from the website "The Commission's main roles are to:
propose legislation which is then adopted by the co-legislators, the European Parliament and the Council of Ministers"

Note how the commission expects no argument. The "co-legislators" (the people that I vote for) are there to rubber-stamp.

We'll all live to rue the day we voted stay in. And then there will be the usual stuff from the 'experts'/ Well nobody could have predicted this. More countries needing bailouts. Even more unemployment in southern Europe. This is one chance to get out of this crumbling failing organisation. Hopefully people will take it. One day to make a differenc

Ifailed that article is further proof how utterly stupid Farage is (did we need any more proof?) In business extended maternity pay and returners bonuses plus offers of flexible hours are what attracts the best women to work for a particular industry, it is how companies seek to retain their valuable, skilled and sought after employees. What a clueless little man.

Purits, I also heard a small business owner on the radio yesterday who would have had to pay thousands to official lobbyists to speak to the EU on her behalf, whereas at least in the UK she could essentially ask her MP to do it on her behalf. Sbe was told that The MEP just doesn't have the same ability to put her case.

Democracy is imperfect but it's better than the alternative.