Stop Moaning! You had your chance to change things and now you've Blown It.

[iwuddarryl]

If Remain wins, for years to come, whenever something goes wrong, be it lack of housing, overcrowding, not enough school places, cuts in social benefits, lack of work, etc etc etc,
People will get told:

You had your chance, a once in a lifetime chance to change things and gain back control. So don't go complaining now that things have eventually gone tits up.

That's going to happen. Isn't it?

you read it here first

Apologies iwuddarryl i believe I misunderstood your op though whether JC is dressed poorly or not is neither here nor there. wrt your op i believe you are right and showofhands is spot on.

Whichever way this goes the people with the power in government, media and business will tell us that all the problems that follow are our own choice and our own fault. Either in or out they will use it as cover to screw us over.

"Either in or out they will use it as cover to screw us over" yes

Whenever Ive heard Gove, Johnson or Farage speak, my overwhelming impression has always been 'gosh, there's a man who wishes he could spend more money on schools, hospitals and affordable housing'!

ergo remaining immigrants, the lazy 'underclasses', women, the disabled.

not sure why women turned out bold.

Well, there was a referendum back in the 1970s where 'remain' one, and it didn't stop the blaming.

So yes, I expect that will remain.

Whichever side wins

I hereby vow never to mention my vote again and ask all here to join me!

If only that had been The Vow after the Scottish Independence Referendum..

What's infuriating is the bland comments that immigration will be controlled --- oh, really,? funny it wasn't important enough to bother about before.

And of course if we stay in nothing will change.

I hereby vow never to mention my vote again and ask all here to join me!

Sorry, I understand the sentiment but I won't be joining you. There has been so much deliberate dishonesty in this campaign, and if the Leave campaign win, I think they will need to be held to account when their lies are exposed.

Ida my classes are open to everyone obviously, but the class yesterday was an advanced group who are all native German speakers with the exception of one French lady in her 50s who is married to a German and has lived here for 30 years. There is also a young Russian speaking lawyer in the group usually, but she wasn't there last night so I don't know what her opinion is.

Why do you ask?

Whatever happens we will be screwed, the Tories will split apart with the in-fighting, there will be a no-confidence vote and then a general election. Sadly, there are enough 'leave' voters to ensure Farage's "BNP-in-Blazers" party win a significant number of seats and it will be a race to the right. Expect further attacks on the disabled, pregnant, and poor.

However last night the English as a Foreign Language class I teach were discussing the Brexit - the prevailing opinion is that it is insanity and that only misguided nationalists who want to inaccurately scapegoat foreigners for all the problems of the modern world would vote leave.

The EU is arranged for the benefit of Germany and France. Of course they like it. I want to live in a land where the politicians make us the priority. That's not an argument for isolationism - we all have to co-exist but I don't want every decision to be run past 27 other countries first. I cite you the much-quoted example of the Canadian trade deal. It's taken them 10 years to sort that out. How can we compete on the world stage when we are that moribund?

The country will go down the pan if we leave the econmy will take a nosedive, what will you say then? (well its ok we made the right decision?????)

We can always have another referendum a few years down the line if things don't work out, either way.

The losing side will say the result doesn't count as the side they don't agree with told lies during the campaign.

The country will go down the pan if we leave, the economy will take a nosedive

The implication is that if we remain then we will never have a recession again. So we are back to the promises of 'no more boom and bust'. And we all know how that panned out.

The country is going down the pan anyway whatever the result, there is a bloody big global recession coming.

At least we'll have a short bounce if we remain I guess.

Purits you think that leaving the EU will lead to a country where politicians put "us" (the general population presumably) first?

What refreshing naivety.

Bartholins - not either way. The EU is hardly likely to let the UK back in if it leaves, at least not in such a short time frame.

However like 99.99% of the debate I have heard that is something that can only be speculated about. The defining characteristic of the entire debate is that there are almost no facts at all to go on and people debating stay versus leave are passionately spouting almost 100% hot air, speculation, assumptions and spin.

Of course politicians put themselves first but they have to pander to the electorate to a degree or else they don't get voted in.
I would rather have the opportunity to be one of 64m voting for policy, as opposed to one of 500m having policy foisted on me by unelected technocrats.

However like 99.99% of the debate I have heard that is something that can only be speculated about. The defining characteristic of the entire debate is that there are almost no facts at all to go on and people debating stay versus leave are passionately spouting almost 100% hot air, speculation, assumptions and spin.

We agree there.
So vote with your heart, people!