To be worried that the Brexiteers might be wrong and an economic disaster is waiting if we leave?

[Girlwithnotattoos]

What if we wake up on Friday out of the EU, probably nothing immediately other than some soul searching by the remainders. But what about in the months to come? What if all the economists and world leaders were right? We could be heading down the swanny big time, companies moving to the EU proper, jobs going left right and centre, deficit increasing because of lost revenues (taxes, vat etc).

I've listened to the fervent Brexiteers who have dismissed everything put to them as propaganda and yet they still haven't come up with a plan to counter the 'what if' scenarios. Am I the only one to be worried that nobody has a plan B if the economy does slow down to tune of 1.4%to 6% as predicted bearing in mind that a reduction of just 0.4% would counteract any saving to be made on what we contribute to the EU?

NuckyT is the thought of our economy having to subsidise Macedonia, Montenegro and Albania - because they aren't going to be net contributors to the euro club are they - supposed to make me want to vote in???

I couldn't give a damn whether you vote in or not. Your high-up Michael Gove gave Albania as a model for the UK post-brexit - if he's talking out if his arse about that, it stands to reason that he (and the rest of the Leave side) is talking out of his arse about everything else.

Whilst I would love Cameron to stay on and steer the ship as it were through tricky waters, he's going in 2020 whatever. I dont want Boris as PM but whoever is leader over the next 4 years is not nearly as important as what happens with the EU over the next 5, 10, 20 years.

Mummy 'The leave campaign is just that - a campaign to leave the EU. they aren't in government they don't have ministers they don't have a budget, they don't know what it is.

the idea that somehow this campaign should have a formal costed programme is completely bonkers. they cant do, they are an idea, a movement not a political party'

But this is the point. The Leave campaign has stated objectives - that it has claimed leaving the EU will achieve. But what is the basis if they are just a ragtag bunch of people with the same idea?

Where has the hard work been done proving these objectives and how they can be achieved. It is just Leave....and it will happen. When pushed to answer a simple question of how will this happen there are no answers just 'it will'

Ducky So the Leave campaign is relying on assumptions that this is in place? Have they not done any work of their own to assist the government if or when the time comes?

But what is the basis if they are just a ragtag bunch of people with the same idea?

Even worse, I think they are a ragtag bunch with different ideas, ie. they each have a different fantasy about what a post-Brexit Britain would look like. This is what happens when people vote 'against' something, rather than having any clear notion of what exactly they're voting FOR.

Mummy you said: "You are being too simplistic by putting this as an issue along party lines. it isn't."

The reason Cameron called the referendum is because of the divisions in his own party that he wanted to shut up, one way or another. All to do with his party's politics and nothing to do with giving the British people a voice. If the vast majority of the British public truly, really felt we should leave, then the vote at the last general election should have seen an enormous swing to UKIP. There wasn't.

Priti Patel was going on about "optimism" last night. It's not about optimism. The whole thing is a risk. There are risks to staying in, there are risks to coming out. But I can get no actual answers on the risks should we leave. It is basically boiling down to "trust us when we say all this will happen". Well, sorry, that ain't good enough when we're dealing with people's jobs, people's livelihoods and people's actual lives.

So much of what the Leave camp has said isn't just scaremongering but blatantly untrue. Some of the flyers they and UKIP have put out are quite frankly disgraceful.

And I say this as someone who has a LOT of problems with the EU.

We have a choice of two tunnels, both go round corners so we cannot see where they lead. One tunnel is completely and utterly dark with no light at all so you cannot see any part of the journey. One tunnel has a bit of light so you can see a bit of your direction of travel. The latter seems to make more sense.

Good point two and it's something our country should learn from

Still I agree. You would be hard pushed to find anyone who would stand up and say they have no issues with the EU. I do too. And if we stay I will be happily voice my support for changes. But to be out is an unknown with any understanding of how we will achieve the promises that have been sold to us - as those who have sold them don't know themselves

the short term pain of having another tory twat in charge far far outweighs the long term pain of staying in the EU as far as I am concerned

If we left the EU it wouldn't be short term pain, if Scotland left (which would be likely) We'd almost certainly be stuck with a far right Tory govt with carte blanche to ream the poor, working class, disadvantaged and public services, while rewarding the rich, for decades.

Talk about "taking back our country", take it back from a Tory govt hell bent on screwing it over.

I've just seen a Brexiter on Facebook post stuff about talking to an 18-year old waitress and explaining how much better Britain was pre-EU and stating facts like this:

In my day, there were no university tuition fees and you could just walk into an office and get a job without the need for a CV or any of that nonsense and my wife didn't HAVE to work.

I seem to think our own governments - successive ones at that - introduced and increased tuition fees. Nothing to do with an EU directive and our governments who pushed people towards further education rather than trades, not the EU. The EU did not make a directive that CVs were compulsory and as for women HAVING to work....!

How can people spout such total utter LIES?

How can people spout such total utter LIES?

I thought this article by the independent is interesting:

www.independent.co.uk/voices/as-a-scientist-who-researches-false-memories-i-find-talk-of-the-good-old-days-before-the-eu-very-a7091121.html

Indeed Still, if we get Brexit it's going to be a huge disappointment for many to find that most of the things we don't like about Britain are result of government policy, not EU policy.

How can people spout such total utter LIES?

I have heard Gove, Johnson and Farage described as 'post-fact politicians' - if the facts don't suit your agenda, ignore the facts.

Farage was on C4 News the other night insisting that reducing immigration would mean that our GDP per capita would recover. When he was confronted with the fact that GDP per capita has actually increased year on year since 2012, as immigration has increased, he just ignored it.

Farage also think that the research on smoking is all wrong.

Imagine if he was put in charge of any government department? (I hope to god if Leave win, then this does not happen in any way shape or form)

"Well I'm going to ignore all the research I've had handed to me, as well I just don't agree with it. We can do this because this is what I believe."

What a frightening prospect.

There are lies on both sides.
There is scaremongering on both sides
There are twats on both sides
There is passion on both sides.
The people voting in have no more idea as to how much the EU is going to stitch us up than the people voting out have about the trade deals.

I have weighed up all the arguments and the evidence but still the most compelling one is that the EU has never passed an audit.

an audit is something which even tiny town councils like the one I sit on have to pass every year to prove that public money has been spent responsibly. and the EU fail them, every year.

mummy the EU is riddled with corruption and there are few ways for the EU to tackle it/police it.

such a waste of time and money. It doesn't surprise me on audits.

Red of course there is a place for research and yes smoking research is pretty damn clear its ridiculous to say its not true!
However, in general terms on other things stats and research can get it wrong.

Just look at the massive swing towards eating more FAT now, as oppose to low fa diets..we can relay on stats too much sometimes and also need to bring in common sense.

mummy
And there is racism on one side...
I'm not saying all Leavers are racist, but let's not forget the £600,000 given to Brexit by former BNP member, Gladys Bramall, and let's not forget that dreadful, racist 'Breaking Point' poster.
If you support Leave and don't support racism, I think you're going to find you have some strange bedfellows if you 'win'...

And there is racism on one side.

So me being told to 'fuck off out of the country' if I vote leave by a Remainer on here or Alan Sugars attack on Gisele Stewart last night aren't racist?

Farage's poster and such are disgusting as said.

Racism is wide spread.

And racism on the other!

The EU is seen as a "white fortress" by some minorities in the UK designed to only allow " white immigration" keeping the rest firmly out.
The eu is seen as a continent of thriving Far Right groups in countries far more racist than UK.

Degenerating Brits as lazy etc is also racist.

I want us to remain and I don't think all the leavers are racist. It is not really in the British psyche to be racist.

However the economic case for remain is very sound and I am sure that right course will prevail.Just everyone think about it very carefully. Tomorrow is the day. Vote early in the day so you don't forget.

Now posh spice and james bond has told people to remain, I will follow them.

I'm sure my children and I have just the same options as these multi millionaires.

Iceland's economy tanked, it has now fully recovered and is one of the strongest.

Ours is on life support thanks to zirp and qe. Its a zombie economy.

twofingerstogideon:
I do hope your own research goes further than what someone you perceive as racist says....so I'll think the opposite.

People that have researched how the EU Commission works are voting to restore sovereignty. I've posted on other threads how it isn't just a civil service as it also has legislative initative - which should be the job for directly elected and removable representatives.

The logic some are using is conveniently simplistic for those big businesses and Banks wishing to keep the low paid down. Maybe best to check you aren't just being fooled by misdirection of "ooh look at that racist" and you're so "intelligent" to believe what I tell you. I hope you've looked into it yourself.

We are not voting on personalities - we are voting to restore sovereignty.

To instruct ALL future British governments we elect, that we do not wish them to pass power from our hands to a higher authority we cannot elect or remove (the Commission) - the MEPs are toothless law "shapers" - won't bore, as in other posts of mine.

I'm sure my children and I have just the same options as these multi millionaires.

I'm sure Nigel Farage and Boris Johnson's fortunes will mirror yours perfectly following an economic downturn caused by Leave as well.

No, oranges, that's deeply offensive but the remain side doesn't incite hatred towards people on the basis of their race. Therefore only Brexit is racist. But you clearly don't care.

Racist is a joke. Exeters are usually the least racist as they want to open the country to skilled people from across the world.