To wish we could get some decent advice on whether to vote to Brexit or Bremain

[lougle]

I am an intelligent woman. I am well educated. I can't for the life of me work out what is truth and what is fiction. I have no idea what is right for this country.

I don't want to spoil my vote. I want to vote, and vote with conviction. But I don't have the first clue which way to vote. I'm a nurse and I love my NHS, if that makes a difference to how I should vote.

knotted Yes, Unlucky was unlucky with her maths there. Oddly enough, I do actually earn £20k per year. £60 seems pretty reasonable. I get better value there than the £300 I pay per year to the police whom you never ever see and are responding less and less to crime.

I'm a British ex pat (medium term, We still pay tax/pension/NHS/mortgage in the UK but am abroad because of hubs work. We will end up coming back eventually ) BUT since becoming an expat, the failings of the UK, and especially the EU have become very, very clear to me. Everytime I come back (2x a year) I can see the country disintegrating in front of me - I hear fewer and fewer British voices in my hometown. I am not anti immigration, but it's out of control now.

If I hadn't have left the UK I would have been in for sure. I'm a bit of a leftie! But now living in a country with almost no immigration, great national pride and sovereignty, and seeing how well the health care, education, pension, judicial and social care system are run ( without the need of a "bigger organization overseeing them) I am very much in favour of an out vote. I think it's positive - the UK could be great, and from an insider outside view, the whole "going down on a sinking ship thing" seems very accurate. It probably helps that the media we get here is not just British too.

Not looking to convert anyone, it's just my own opinion from where I am now and I thought I would share! No offense intended whatsoever!

I found this really helpful: blog.moneysavingexpert.com/2016/06/05/how-to-vote-in-the-eu-referendum/
My vote has now been made and posted!
Awaiting the outcome with interest....

Whoops - I was thinking of a thing on Radio 4 where apparently we give the EU £600 per year per family...but then get £400 back or something...so I was wondering about the 0.3%
Anyway even £60 to be told what to do ...no thanks!
And my argument remains the lack of democracy ....which is acknowledged by most remainers

I am on Remain camp for all the good reasons posted above.

Sleepymama, so you are an immigrant in another country but don't like immigrants being in Britain. An interesting view point. I wonder how people view you when they hear you speaking in your host country?

Immigrants complaining about immigrants really are something else.

t4 so happy you believe that nato and the UN are enough. We have active involvement in the Middle East. Now more than ever we need our military. Russia and China are both countries we should also be keeping a very close eye on.

Yes having a military is expensive to fund but it is needed. Fine to adapt but their cut backs have left too many at risk.

really how so? I have immigrants in my family complaining because guess what, they have to use services just like the rest of us.

its about numbers and volume isn't it, although some posters seem to really enjoy trying to make it racist...

Yes and I bet they'd be most put out if someone pointed at them and said 'you shouldn't be here, please leave'.

Wasonthelist, That's perfectly fair enough, but I look at Cameron, Osbourne, Blair, Brown and Mandelson and I'm not seeing shining examples of humanity. These "that person thinks so" arguments aren't very convincing for me - but the great thing about this is that everyone gets to make their own mind up using their own criteria - so if a (perfectly fair) dislike of Boris and Farage is your bag - that's as good a reason as anyone else's.

They aren't terribly appealing but compared to Farage, Gove and Johnson they are pretty good. I find Farage offensive, how can I take advice from Gove when he fails to understand that he can't make every child above average and Johnson just reminds me of a clown.

SoThisIsSummer, if that is directed at me I wasn't bringing up racism just hypocrisy. Don't you find it odd that someone who is living abroad should complain about people from abroad living here?

no not at all.

its not up to them or the migrant/immigrant to be in control of number etc.
its the host countries job isn't it.

and our government has clearly allowed too much immigration. And the previous one. so yes, anyone living here from where ever can say - wow what the hell is going on,...

If I went to a nightclub and got in and it was dangerously full, I am fully entitled on blaming the owners for allowing entry,

Everything seems so.. Extreme! It's difficult to find a balanced view.

But what if the immigrants in your family left? Surely that would free up some room.

I'm sure there are some better qualified immigrants who'd love to take their place.

It's like British people living in Spain moaning that they've had to move because the UK is overrun with foreigners. And they're totally oblivious to the irony.

"It's like British people living in Spain moaning that they've had to move because the UK is overrun with foreigners. And they're totally oblivious to the irony."

Bang on, Mitzy!

Mitzy, exactly. It makes me laugh or cry? Depends how I'm feeling.

Sleepymama, so you are an immigrant in another country but don't like immigrants being in Britain. An interesting view point. I wonder how people view you when they hear you speaking in your host country?

This is a good point. Recently I have heard this position of immigrants not wanting anymore immigrants to come in. Or of expats enjoying the benefits of another country but bemoaning the state of immigration in Britain (British pensioners in Spain is the classic example but Sleepymama is another now) So contrary and bizarre.

No reason why people -immigrants or not - who are already in a country can't complain about immigration it it effects them.
The British expats - maybe they could argue they would have remained in the UK if it wasn't for immigration.
(Actually the last few posts about this have made feel uncomfortable - they actually sound quite racist? something a bit ...)
Anyway people want to protect their way of life - and some can be quite self centred and selfish. This is one of the most jaw dropping egs I have heard...
Radio 4 was following a family of Syrian refugees going to Germany - their son had gone ahead and was already there and had paid for the rest of his family to follow.
I only heard the last one and they had all settled in a flat and they had other relations who had been there for years ... some of the older ones were saying they missed home and would go back as soon as they could etc, the son who had paid for them was saying it was better for his siblings to stay in Germany etc. They asked them all if they thought Germany should take more Syrian refugees - the son who paid who said no! enough had left. Some needed to stay in the locality so they could help rebuild after the war.... The interviewer pointed out his hypocrisy and he just said - I know...but...

No reason they can't complain, no one has suggested that. The irony of the situation however is lost to them.

Tried the quiz it says 'see your results' and nothing comes up 🙁

Tried the quiz it says 'see your results' and nothing comes up

Me too, or neither.

I specified in my original post - I'm here for my husbands work. Not necessarily immigration by choice on my part, and I would move back tomorrow if it was possible without splitting up my family (it is not - he's here for at least another 3 years.) hardly comparable to British pensioners who choose to move to Spain, in my opinion.

Just I feel that being abroad and removed from the situation gives a lot of clarity. It's been very interesting for me to see how things CAN be done. I was quite singular minded until I moved away, but hindsight is 50/50 and all that.