To think homophobia will get worse in the Western Europe and not enough is being done to combat this prejudice

[evilcherub]

I know homophobia is already pretty common but I think it will get worse the more immigrants from cultures that are intolerant of homosexuality and homosexuals come to Western Europe. I hope gay people will remain safe here in the UK and able to lives their lives without fearing being "out".

Yes, it is a shame. Why don't you stop doing it, Ego?

It is possible to not be on the side of Donald Trump and question what is going on here. I don't want to be linked with any of those who scapegoat Muslims but I do want to say I have serious concerns about some aspects of this religion. I was aware of the sampling issues of that survey, it still causes me grace concerns. The issue about wondering what Christian attitudes towards

OP, I agree with your point. Like you, I especially worry about Russia. The stories that have emerged from there have been heartbreaking.

We have two new challenges to face:

1. Migration of young people. In the past, we have used the education system to change social attitudes and further equality. This is no longer going to have the same influence when very many people in the UK arrive as young adults. We need to find ways of creating social changes around inclusion that have adults as their focus.
2. The Internet. People are picking up social attitudes from the U.S. because they make up most of the Anglosphere. We are picking up new forms of racism, sexism and homophobia as a consequence.

I would like to see more resources given to gay and lesbian organisations at a local community level to help them thrive.

And are you seriously denying the existence of thousands of civilised, non-homophobic Muslims?

Of course there are, there are 1.2 bn Muslims and they aint all murdering Jihadi nutters , obviously - OK?. There were 2.3 million Arab Muslims in the US on 9/11 2001. It took just 19 of them, that's 19, radical nutcases to slaughter almost 3,000 people that day. So this peaceful moderate majority you and other people keep referring to - are an irrelevance. The Islamic leaders, the theocrats are the ones driving the agenda.

There's always a moderate, peaceful, majority - whether were talking about Islam, Nazi Germany, Japan in the 40's. The USSR during Stalin's terror. Mao's China. Still untold Millions died.

Also these people who keep throwing out Christianity as no better. Its true that the Bible has nothing nicer to say about women and gay people as the Koran does. But Christianity has been through a very bloody reformation - which Islam has definitely not had.. It's undeniable, naive and stupid to deny that here in the west, we've much more liberal forms of religion and social organisation that do not take the original religious texts literally. But Islamic countries do just that, and therefore fundamentalism is very strong in most Muslim countries and it isn't really being discussed properly here in Britain ans elsewhere in the West, due the excessive fears among so many people to come across as 'Islamophobic'.

Aargh why does it keep posting early. The issue about wondering what Christian attitudes towards LGBT are, is that we don't really care about religion, church attendance is negligible, etc so even if the teachings of the bible are homophobic sexist etc, hardly anyone uses it to guide their views.

Never said that at all Ego. I've found your posts since Orlando very upsetting, so would prefer if we left 'this,' so I can contribute to the thread.

I don't think homosexuality and Islam are compatible really ... Neither is homosexuality and Catholicism.

That doesn't mean there aren't gay Muslim men - I know there are - but I'd suggest that they are probably not going to get a Muslim of the Year award any time soon.

But yes it's interesting isn't it, what we will tolerate in the name of religion.

I don't think you get to dictate how other people choose to contribute to the thread, almondpudding, and of course how they choose to respond manifestly does not prevent you from contributing either.

I'm not dictating. I'm expressing a preference for communication specifically between me and Ego, not her discussion on the thread in general.

But we need to look at our own hypocrisy. We are happy to take cash from Qatar and Saudi we are happy to shop in Dubai and take huge salaries there.

So the right wing call LGBT names and Muslims outright mass murder LGBT but the right right are the problem, Muslims AOK mass murder is not a bad as name calling.

Reggie Yates did an interesting documentary recently. He went into Black Christian and Muslim communities and spoke to young gay men from those communities. His conclusion was that these communities were hugely homophobic. So much more so than the general white population which in comparison came across as hugely liberal and tolerant - I know, I know there will be rolling eyes. This was the opinion of these young men - all black or Muslim.

So yes, I wouldn't be surprised if there is a rise in homophobia, sexual assaults and antisemitism in the UK. I've lived and travelled in countries where many of these young Muslim immigrants are coming from. I don't usually comment on these threads as I hate to fuel any rampant racists - but, the level of harrasement and sexual assault I experienced there and saw happen to other women was through the roof. Nothing like what we experience in the UK. I think we would be blind to ignore this.

And one muslim, self radicalised, possibly secretly homosexual himself is a great representative of all muslims?

how can you compare this shooter with the two churches you mentioned. why are you now framing what I said - to "include all muslims" I never said that, you are saying that, you are taking debate to this unacceptable level.

its not an isolated incident is it? no he doesnt represent every single muslim in the world but at the moment, a great deal of so called muslims are chucking gay people off roofs, mutilating little girls bits, arranging child marriages, burning girls for refusing arranged marriage, killing people left right center hacking arms, legs off and hanging and goodness whats else.

I wrote some where else about a girl who has intervention from courts today - to protect her from her own bloody parents! She is getting marriage proposals, but they are turning her down because she is not FGM'd. Her mother it seems wasn't keen on it but felt pressure from the community and forced the girl to inquire about it at the docs and he helped her to get help ( or rather refereed her to nspcc). In Saudi they give the kids workbooks, instructing them to hate gays, jews and infidels. Its quite wide spread isn't it.

Does this represent all Muslims? NO, but there seems to be many issues that need urgent addressing within this religion.

The issue about wondering what Christian attitudes towards LGBT are, is that we don't really care about religion, church attendance is negligible, etc so even if the teachings of the bible are homophobic sexist etc, hardly anyone uses it to guide their views
Yes and because our community and everything else is liberal we blend that into everything else.

Forgive me the slight tangent, but I don't think people realise just how dangerous the Christian Right is - certain groups of it in particular.

Also, I think it's important to point out the Christian Right is not a remnant of the old pre-reformation Church, the Christian Right as it is now did not emerge as a massive political force until the 1970's.

Two extreme right wing pastors preached on how much my community had it coming following the attack. It's easy to think "well, what can the Right do? Pathetic dinosaurs with waning influence, and they aren't going to hurt anyone except through their disgusting words, so we can safely pretend they don't exist and ignore their activites".

For me the most notable part of their sermons was when they both seperately stated what the Right's most dangerous homophobic strategy has been in the last ooh, decade and a half. Steven Anderson:

I will say this: You know, the Bible says that homosexuals should be put to death, in Leviticus 20:13. Obviously, it’s not right for somebody to just, you know, shoot up the place, because that’s not going through the proper channels. But these people all should have been killed anyway, but they should have been killed through the proper channels. As in, they should have been executed by a righteous government that would have tried them, convicted them and saw them executed

And that's exactly what some members of the movement have been up to. Whereas muslim fundamentalists want the publicity and fear of illegal murders, the Christian Right prefer not to have their serious involvment in getting LGBT people legally murdered splashed on the front pages.

For instance, the media gave massive attention to the passing of extreme anti-gay legislation in Uganda. It generally failed to mention just how massive a role a few White American pastors of the Christian Right had in getting that bill created. Ugandan gay rights activists have described the legislation as essentially the bill of just one man - a White American pastor who believes that the Bible says Christian should tend to follow the law, so must ensure that undesirable minorities are 'righteously' and legally 'dealt with'

www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/03/scott-lively-anti-gay-law-uganda
www.thenation.com/article/its-not-just-uganda-behind-christian-rights-onslaught-africa/

How many Ugandans have died since this furore was whipped up by Americans spotting their golden opportunity? Their blood is on the American pastor's hands as surely as the victims of Sunday's massacre is on Omar Mateen's hands, though only one murdered directly and openly. How many in other African countries? How many in Eastern Europe? How much blood? How long do we pretend that influential groups of Christian fundamentalists don't have a working strategy and aren't committing crimes against humanity?

Of course I fear Muslim Fundamentalists. But my community are being targetted and killed by Western christian fundamentalists too, just mostly abroad, and you better believe I'm angry about them too.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/london-is-more-homophobic-than-the-north-10120844.html

This was widely discussed last year. As I mentioned in a pp, London is at the vanguard of the trend towards increased religiosity in the UK in recent years; Islam to a large extent but also militant varieties of Christianity from places like SS Africa, and some influence from the US. What is the case in London now will likely be the case in Birmingham and other major cities fairly soon.

Meanwhile, we have a broader trend towards more tolerance towards sexual minorities.

Which of these trends will win out in the long run? Or could it be that they will both "win" and we will see a country that is ever more polarized between the tolerant and the intolerant?

I simply don't know.