To think homophobia will get worse in the Western Europe and not enough is being done to combat this prejudice

[evilcherub]

I know homophobia is already pretty common but I think it will get worse the more immigrants from cultures that are intolerant of homosexuality and homosexuals come to Western Europe. I hope gay people will remain safe here in the UK and able to lives their lives without fearing being "out".

There is, however, an inherent problem in the Abrahamic religions with homosexuality and women, isn't there?

Most religious people can rise above it/interpret writings in a modern way. But lots - increasing numbers - seem to use this as justification for all sorts of behaviour.

Religion has to modernise or there will be huge clashes.

The liberal left won't discuss this though.

Because obviously this mans religion will have had nothing at all to do with the way he viewed his own sexuality.

Islam is homophobic, most religions are homophobic, to pretend otherwise is condoning it.

www.afterellen.com/general-news/491409-least-eight-queer-woman-dead-orlando-gay-club-massacre

Slug

Lets minimize female death cause it doesn't fit the narrative. Are they the reason the Muslim man decide to kill them.

user1465994110

Westboro terrorise their own people if they have the misfortune to be born gay, or display any other behaviour seen by them as anti christian. But by encouraging and celebrating attacks on the homosexual community they are as bad as the people that do the deed.

As for other Christians who kill..

What about Northern Ireland?
Central Africa? Anti- Balaka
Christian mallitia groups demanding people convert to catholicism or die?

Human Rights Watch employees in the Central African Republic have claimed to have witnessed anti-balaka forces cutting "the throats of Muslim civilians, publicly lynching, mutilating, and setting their bodies on fire." It also reported attacks where the groups had cut off body parts or hacked Muslims to death.

www.alternet.org/tea-party-and-right/10-worst-terror-attacks-extreme-christians-and-far-right-white-men

I have no truck with anyone who hurts anyone else no matter who they are or thier 'excuse'. They are all scum.

I can post a link if anyone wants to read the whole thing.

But religion cannot modernise. If you believe the Koran/Torah/Bible is the actual word of God then you cannot change or interpret what it says. You have to accept it in entirely as an orthodox follower of that religion.

However, as an Iman was saying yesterday just because that's what I believe doesn't mean I get to treat you with any less respect or humanity. To do so would be against my religion. I have no right whatsoever to murder, injure or oppress you.

So whilst you have a religious belief regarding someone's sexuality it's your duty to be compassionate if you are a true follower of that religion. I think a lot of people miss this point who claim to be religious.

I think it was an Islamic attack on people they think are sinful.

www.alternet.org/tea-party-and-right/10-worst-terror-attacks-extreme-christians-and-far-right-white-men

It just doesn't happen!! You can ignore the rhetoric if you wish and just read the facts

No of them are the Western christian Chruch, they just protest funerals and such, they have not killed anyone.

Willow, I'm not sure what you're arguing against to be honest. I wasn't defending religion, just pointing out that attitudes within Christianity specifically is changing. Of course, it shouldn't have to change and the harm done by to LGBTQ+ people is something that Christians should be ashamed of.

We're talking in terms of trends and generalities. Part of the divergence of opinion does include the likes of Westboro, and they cannot just be ignored, but the overall direction within Christianity is much more towards acceptance and positivity.

(And I don't know what user1465994110 is on about).

I put Western Europe because apart from religious homophobia I have noticed that homophobia is still rife (and state sponsored) in some Eastern European countries (and is ironically especially bad in previously communist Russia).

There is a thriving gay quarter in Birmingham but there are definitely places that openly gay people would be rightly wairy to go unfortunately (Sparkhill, Sparkbrook, Small Heath).

People are say Westbro are as bad as Islam, Westbro have never killed one person in the name of their religion. To me that makes Islam way worse

But religion cannot modernise. If you believe the Koran/Torah/Bible is the actual word of God then you cannot change or interpret what it says. You have to accept it in entirely as an orthodox follower of that religion.

This line of discussion is probably more suited to the philosophy/religion board. But what you are describing is not how most Christians I know view their faith. And it is clear that religions have changed over time: slavery, the role of women etc in Christianity; early Islam had images of Muhammed. There is always interpretation. And that is inevitably influenced by the time and place people are in.

I think one of the problem is that there never was any substantial change - the US and Western Europe, etc. are still patriarchies.

Rapists are still not punished. In a recent case in Germany, two rapists even have the cheek to sue their victim for allegedly making "false accusations" (this is a case where the rapists filmed the rape. It is all on video. There's proof.)

So. What we have now is a nicer-looking, less violent patriarchy.

There are no laws that prevent immigrant men from raping with impunity, because there never were laws to prevent any men from raping with impunity (but it is only seen as problem if it is immigrants doing the raping.)

There are, I would wager, also not adequate laws in place to protect homosexual people, though I am not an expert on that.

Homosexuals are also under attack from the transwacktivist movement, that worships gender stereotypes and pressures homosexual teenagers into "transitioning", i.e. obtaining a castration. Seems familiar?

I think the homophobia is on the rise mainly because transgenderism is peddled as a "cure" to homosexuality.

In the end, yes, immigrants may be a threat to human rights in Western Europe - but the politicians who opposed (and still oppose) human rights for women and equality for homosexuals, etc., ironically, are exactly those who are now the most eager to blame immigrants.

I don't trust people who want to exclusively blame immigrants.

I don't see how you can say transsexuals are an attack to homosexuals!

No one is forcing a person to be trans. Saying trans women are gay men pressured to castrating themselves is a ridiculous statement.

It's like when some feminists saying gay men are just super misogynistic men that sleep with men cause of their hate of women.

No one is forcing a person to be trans

What about children who are too young to give consent to any medical treatment, but are still being transed, with puberty blockers and all?

Sure, no one holds a gun to their heads, but societal pressure is still pressure. And the more pressure there is to conform to gender roles, the more pressure there is to transition if your personality doesn't fit the gender role.

It's like when some feminists saying gay men are just super misogynistic men that sleep with men cause of their hate of women.

I don't know any feminist who says that - in fact, the super misogynistic men are whose who fuck women even though they only love men. (And there's some evidence that the Orlando murderer was that kind of man)

Sadiq Khan was mentioned upthread:

He has always voted in Parliament for LGBT rights and he campaigned for the equal marriage law, despite receiving death threats.
He pledged that as mayor he would tackle homophobia in all communities

He's spoken out in favour of empowering women and reducing body-shaming.

He launched his local election campaign from a Tooting pub he fought to save from developers, even though he doesn't drink alconol.

His first official act as mayor was attending the official Holocaust commemoration event, also condemned by Islamic and far-right extremists alike, who deny the 6 million murders happened.
He condemned Ken Livingstone & others who made anti-semitic remarks - he got aggro for that - and he's pledged to resource the police to prioritise combatiing anti-semitic hate crimes

So he's an example of a Muslim in a position of power who stands up for the rights of non-Muslims & Muslims, even to do things that are against his religion

This thread is weird, offensive, and racist.

Westboro Baptist is famously an extremist group that is not representative of Christianity.

ISIS is not representative of Islam.

Individual extremist actions generally are not representative of the religion they distort to excuse their crimes.

VestalVirgin

Puberty Blockers are hard to get and delay puberty till the child is 18 and then decide to take hormones or not

If they decide they where wrong they can come off and normal puberty will start.

To say trans people are just gay people forced into it wrong and both homo and transphobic, to think gay kids transition does disrespect to them.

Are you one of the people that don't want trans kids in the tiolets with your special darling or competing in sports with them.

LGBT took years to get acceptance and Trans people are still fighting, the worrying trend is Muslims not trying to bring it all down and the poeple that want to virtue signal how progressive they are siding with the refugees not realizing the harm it is doing to LGBT people