to be upset at constantly being left out of holidays?

[NeonPegasus]

DH and I have been together for five years. We have one daughter together, I already had three when we met and he has two lovely daughters as well. All the children get on well.

I haven't had a holiday for seven years. DH goes away with his mum and his daughters every year, but this year I've started to wonder why the rest of us aren't ever invited. I sometimes get a half-assed invite from his mum but I'm expected to leave my other three children (who've NEVER had a holiday) at home with family while I go, and I'm not really comfortable with doing that, it doesn't seem fair that I'm on holiday with their sister while they spend the week with my parents.

They decided they weren't going away this year. That it was easier to involve everyone if we planned lots of little days out instead, which I thought sounded like a great idea. We live in a place which is near enough to lots of attractions that we can feasibly do that without much difficulty. I was really looking forward to it.

Then, out of the blue this morning his mum decides she wants to go to Center Parcs, and she's booked it for them in August. As in her, DH and the three girls. I'm not expecting his mum to pay for everyone to go on holiday, by any means, but is it asking too much that I'm offered the choice to at least put money in so we can all go? I don't think I'd wanna shell out Center Parcs prices anyway (ouch) but I'm irrationally irked at not even being asked.

It's not like they don't all get time together, he has the girls every other weekend and they all spend that time together, he doesn't bring them to our home he takes them to his mums (he says this is a space issue, I think it may be more because his ex says he cant, I gave up asking).

I'm an emotional wreck at this time of the month anyway and we lost my ex's mum on Sunday (who I was very close to) so I can't help but think I'm just projecting my emotional state on the nearest issue that's arisen but I'm so upset over it, which is really unlike me.

I think mils issue with op is the mere fact she exists and her darling son isn't home with mummy 24/7.

I do love the idea of all landing at Mils for the weekend. Sends the message we are a family unit and needs time to bond together.

Given the ages of his kids you could be another 8-10 years of this treatment before they are off your hands

But redshoe if her dh does that, he will be completely under his mother's control. That is the last thing op should let happen if she wants her marriage to work. Unless he has some kind of epiphany whilst staying with his mother, op will likely loose him forever. He is under the influence of a narcissist, who has systematically used techniques including brainwashing and gas lighting.

Sorry I'm trying to reply to everyone.

I'll write some stuff down for him today, and tell him I've sent it so he can read it whenever he's ready to.

Generally speaking, our relationship is not that bad - we have our ups and downs but it's this in particular that is destroying my motivation to keep plodding on. My other three children like him, but my eldest (eleven) is at an age now where the differences between his children and my children is becoming quite obvious. I do love him. I can honestly say if I ended it I would still love him, but if loving someone comes at the cost of my children being divided than I'd rather be hurt myself.

He has one sister, who is very much like his mother - makes plans, expects everyone to adhere to them. Does he enjoy spending time with his mum? No, I don't think he does. He doesn't much enjoy the holidays, either - he spent all week last year on the phone to me moaning about how miserable it was and how he wanted to come home. Which is why I'm so confused as to why he doesn't just say 'no'.

I've questioned whether his mum actually likes me before, he says she does like me and always has done. I've spent time with her before, yes, and it's been a bit uncomfortable but fine generally. I have never given her a reason not to like me - we had very different upbringings (he comes from a very privileged background, I certainly don't) and I did wonder if it could be that she thinks I'm not good enough for him. Maybe she doesn't like the fact I already had children. Perhaps I've somehow offended her and not noticed.

I can't think of any other reason for the exclusion other than it's me she doesn't like, though.

Honestly Neon, I would be pushing for two ultimatums in your shoes:

A joint bank account,
And at least one holiday a year with all six of your children, until such time as they're older and stop wanting to come along. If all you can afford is caravan holidays for the eight of you every year, well, there are holiday parks all over the UK.

This current inequality among your children has to end, and only you can put your foot down to stop it for them.

I would not be surprised that he has said this because of your MIL. What I mean by this is that she may very well kick off because your shared daughter will accompany you and not them.

I also think that by him saying i'll pay for day passes is a big slap in the face! It's like you are all not good enough to stay for a week with them.

Also, he sounds like a complete man child....

Neon you must not back down, I bet he will use a whole arsenal of emotional blackmail/guilt/minimising in order to get you to revert back. You simply cannot, this will or already has affected your children.

The day passes idea is a joke. This our lovely holiday but you can't stay. The only acceptable remedy would be a second lodge (9 would not fit) or mil doesn't go!

If he bleats about picking sides or MIL crying/shouting so he agrees with her to keep the peace then IME you need to shout louder - make it more uncomfortable for him to upset you.

Oh op, what a sad story. I feel for your girls how on early has this man left them out so blatantly. I'm certain they are very aware of being the 'other' children. It's not fair that they have been treated this way. Who can feel good about leaving kids out in such an obvious way.

Day passes are a bloody insult!! He can get stuffed If he thinks this is some sort of compromise. You really should think about your relationship with him op. Even if he somehow starts including you all, it would be through ultimatums and forced upon him. He doesn't genuinely love your children and you as his own family. That will always be there.

Oh god he really does need extraction from the narcissists.

This is actually one of the very very few threads, where I would say it would perhaps be beneficial for dh to read it.

There is so much stuff online about narcissm op.

Janecc I was going to suggest that op shows her dh this thread but that suggestion doesn't always go down well on MN. However, i think if he could actually see how other people have responded to this it might give him a kick up the arse.

I can't think of any other reason for the exclusion other than its me she doesn't like, though

It's got nothing to do with you op. It's her. You could be a royal princess and she would still be jealous and find a way of ditching you and your princesses fathered by your ex.

Your presence is the problem. Not who you are. She's a narcissist. Her dds a narcissist. Your dh is going along with it and also has narcissistic tendencies.

Trust me I'm the daughter of a narcissist. My mother is hateful to me and I mean awful. It's not about me. It's about her.

Hi OP. Have just RTFT can't believe he even said "he can't keep both sides happy"! That makes it crystal clear that he sees the thing as being 2 teams-Team MIL and his DDs vs Team you and your DDs. He and his DM really haven't got the concept of a blended family! If he is so enshrined in guilt and her narcissistic personality he may need counselling to help him see more clearly. OTOH he may be enjoying getting to swan off on paid for holidays every year with his "other family". It shouldn't be about sides, his loyalty should be to you and to ALL his kids. Any use in you talking to your MIL about it yourself and explaining how you feel? Interesting that they were going to do just days out this year-was that your DHs idea and then your MIL stuck her oar in? Until he learns to stand up to her and put you and all the kids first, this will never be resolved-day passes are a pathetic suggestion! Enjoy Cornwall-it might make him think when he sees photos and hears about the great time you all had. Good luck with writing everything down today if you wanted to force a conversation you could always call MIL and tell her she doesn't now need to pay for your DD re Centre Parcs

The problem is that if you take a holiday with everyone to include MIL, it will become even more apparent that she rejects your children, and they will notice. At the moment, she's kind of rejecting 'from a distance', but put her grandchildren and her step-grandchildren in the same vicinity and you'll soon see what she's capable of. She's not very nice I'm afraid and she will show her displeasure. And your DC will feel it.

I'd be ditching MIL from your family holiday. Let DH go with your DSC and MIL if he wants, but the primary holiday should be yours, together.

I haven't been around long enough to know that ohfuchs. Glad we are in agreement.

Only thing is he may not be adult enough to take it. In which case it could back fire. Op would need to judge on that score.

And that's ok if he's not adult enough op. It's not surprising he's got gaps in his knowledge of how to be an adult. His mother will too and likely his father before him. They couldn't teach him what they didn't know.

"he can't keep both sides happy"

There is SO much in that statement he made. I fear that you're not really privy to how MIL really feels about you and your DC and he's stuck in the middle because HE knows how she feels. I'm sorry - you're in for a rough ride with this one. When have YOU ever said you're unhappy about MIL being present on a holiday? Never, I'd bet. This is all created by MIL not wanting 'outsiders' in her family.

So if he doesn't enjoy it and doesn't want to go -

Tell him you are a team and that things are going to change for the better - you will work together to be a blended family and he doesn't have to go to DM EOW as you would like to make your own family memories -

Don't make it anti MIL - make it pro Family

Keep saying team - us- together -

Don't know if this has been covered, but are you sure there isn't a legal reason your DH can only see his DCs if his mother is present? Could it be that?

You know what if you had been together 6 months, didn't live together, didn't have a CHILD together I could see this.

But seriously, his ex and your MIL need to accept right now that you are together and its HIS fault that they haven't

Hes a weak man

I agree that the MIL's attitude has nothing to do with the OP. It's not personal - the OP could be anyone. What MIL wants is to have her son close by, giving her his attention and demonstrating his commitment to her. Her son's wife poses a threat to her control over her son.

So the wife has to be excluded. This is easy for MIL because she can use the excuse that the wife has children from a previous relationship, who are not her biological GCs. It's not a good excuse, but it's an excuse that she has successfully used to persuade her son to split up his family.

Her son is easily persuaded by MIL's spurious excuses because he is afraid of upsetting her. He feels responsible for her, especially after the death of his father. He simply cannot imagine going against her wishes because the consequences for him will involve terrible feelings of guilt.

I think it's important that the OP keep talking about it. Don't let it go, and don't wait until next year to see what happens. Start with getting DH's daughters to come to his house (not MIL's) on contact weekends. At first there will be a few battles, but don't back down. He needs to be constantly reminded that his first priority is to his wife and children (all his children, not just his biological children).

Why don't you and your children go on holiday by yourselves? It sounds like hell to be with MIL!

Don't know if this has been covered, but are you sure there isn't a legal reason your DH can only see his DCs if his mother is present? Could it be that? No, absolutely not. before he met me he was living alone (about five minutes from his ex) and he had them from early Saturday morning til Sunday evening. He also has them at hers even if she's away on holiday. It's not a legal reason.

The given reason is that we 'don't have the room' for them. Honestly, that's not untrue, we have a three bed house and if they were here all the time it would become an issue, but for the sake of ONE night every two weeks, it's perfectly feasible that they could come here. Yes, it would mean the kids being moved about and swapping beds for the night, but it's not completely unfeasible (especially if, as I've suggested before, we get a sofa bed to go in one of the kids' rooms).

I've written him an email and suggested at the end perhaps we could do with some kind of counselling or mediation to get through this because at the moment it's causing far too much animosity and atmosphere in the house, which the kids pick up on. I don't think there's much else I can do apart from wait and see where it goes from here.

Her son is easily persuaded by MIL's spurious excuses because he is afraid of upsetting her. He feels responsible for her, especially after the death of his father. He simply cannot imagine going against her wishes because the consequences for him will involve terrible feelings of guilt.

This. This is where I'd be starting. I actually feel for him a bit, because when you're drawn in by a parent in this way it can be horrendously difficult to rid yourself of the responsibility for that parent's feelings and the guilt can be second to none. So... your child together and his DSC have someone to lean on - you. His mother? Well, she's all alone, isn't she? She needs him. That can be hard to extract yourself from.

"I'd be ditching MIL from your family holiday."

An eight berth caravan means only room for OP, her DH and their six children (sorry, Neon - I dozily miscounted your DC earlier in the thread ), so no room for MIL.

Great start. Hopefully this will keep the communication lines open. Don't be surprised if you get all manner of shit thrown back. It's part of the programming he received. Stand firm.

he even took them round his mil when she wasnt even there?

thats even more odd-and syaing theres no room when youve found a solution

what was she like with u when he first introduced u to her op?

Taking them to mils when she wasn't there is about keeping up the pretence on blaming exwife. Rather than mil ( who has his brain warped)