To think Owen Jones is childish

[sandrabedminster]

Owen Jones storms off sky news

I don't even get what his issue is, he's invited on to discuss the headlines and then runs off as he doesn't like how much attention the biggest story is getting.

I suspect you don't give a fuck about LGBT violence

This is just plain silly. Everyone on this thread is plainly horrified by what's happened and by the environment of LGBT violence which bubbles away all the time. You seem to be doing what OJ did which is to react in a rather extreme way to people who don't discuss this in precisely the way you think they should.

I suspect you don't give a fuck about LGBT violence

Sigh.

Are you Owen Jones, Ego?

So what changes do you want to see given the tragedy in Orlando?

Not that I think it makes a blind bit of difference what I want, but first and foremost it would be changes to the gun laws in the US, which they will never do, given the strength of the NRA lobby over there. The shooter was someone already known to agencies - why was it so ludicrously easy for this pig to get military style semi-automatic weapons? Why can't they even accept some kind of cooling off period for weapons purchases, let alone why on earth an ordinary citizen would ever need an assault rifle.

In a broader sense, I'd like you, and others, to accept that Islam is fundamentally and inherently homophobic, to a murderous degree, at its heart. Here's a gallup poll result reported in the guardian, supporting what I say. Yes, sure most muslims don't murder gay people, but they sure as hell condemn them with enthusiasm.

"Do you give a flying fuck about LGBT people and violence? Because if you did, then you wouldn't be having a go at a transwoman who has experienced violence for being trans?"

So, what you are basically saying is that anyone who disagrees with you about anything must be someone who does't care about LGBT people and violence?

It seems the killer was a closet homosexual. It was a random attack in a gay venue, it was one he visited often. I don't think that attack had much to do with his religion even if he said it did.

• wasn't

Was he closest or scouting out places to attacks

He sounds like a miserable closet case who was a pretty tortured soul, but the violence of the way he lashed out was surely affected by the extremely homophobic environment that he was nurtured in. Look at his father's views, for a start. Imagine being secretly gay and growing up in such a household!?

If this was a conservative Christian homophobic background that he grew up in, you can bet your boots people would be talking about it, and the left would be incandescent with rage and disgust (as, indeed, they should do).

As for the USA, they need to ban automatic weapons

Automatic weapons are tightly controlled in the USA, and have been illegal to import, manufacture or offer for sale new since 1986. There are a relatively small number (probably less than 100k) automatic weapons in private hands, and transfers require the services of a Title 3 Federal Firearms License holder, which is a huge deal. There has been no case involving the use of an automatic weapon in a mass shooting.

Controlling semi-automatic weapons would involve rounding all every ranch gun sold for the last 40 years, or which there are many tens of millions.

I'm not sure some of the stories coming through now about his background are entirely reliable. It seems the press have their wallets out so I'm taking all the current rumours with a pinch of salt.

For example the story about how he cheered the second plane hitting the two towers on 9/11 was clearly class A bullshit to anybody who actually watched it at the time.

*As long as there is religion, based on centuries old writings, and interpreted by the unhinged in ever more extreme ways, there will be suffering in its name.

(And I include all religion in that, not just Islam).*

Yes but Christianity has been through a fairly radical and extremely bloody reformation whereas Islam certainly has not. In the west we've much more liberal forms of religion that do not take the original text literally. But in many Islamic countries fundamentalism is very strong and it isn't really being discussed due the excessive fears among so many people like OJ, to come across as 'Islamophobic'.

well as OJ said in an article we just have to be careful when talking about Islam because creating a you and them divide plays into their hands.

On the other hand, we do live in liberal society, and Saudi is fueling this hate filled branch of Islam and it does need to be addressed.

I would really like to see Wahhabism disappear. It's the root of an awful lot of terrible things.

And now another one of these fanatic scum have murdered one of our policiers and his wife. Their three-year old was there to see them stabbed and is now an orphan. What sick philosophy can justify these acts?

Disgusting. Utterly disgusting and depraved.

And now another one of these fanatic scum have murdered one of our policiers and his wife.

Owen Jones won't give a shit: just a breeder.

Owen Jones won't give a shit: just a breeder.

Probably deserved it for being a physical embodiment of the Islamophobic fascist police state in OJ world.

Seeing as this individual was seen scoping a theme park, it appears that his attack on a gay nightclub might have had less to do with his obsession with homosexuality (and the evils thereof...) and more to do with the fact that a packed nightclub with limited exits comprised a far better killing zone than an open air theme park covering hundreds of acres. If he had chosen the theme park, then we most definitely would be having a conversation about Islam. Or not, as is often the Ostrich-head-in-sand type behaviour on here.

God, it's ironic isn't it. Owen Jones, a gay man so ideologically confused that his support for the Palestinian cause sidesteps the fact that if he were a gay man in Gaza he'd have to move to Israel to stay alive. At least Douglas Murray sees it for what it is.

And for those whining about the American right. jesus, I can't think of more LGBT friendly cities than San Francisco, New Orleans, Chicago, New York, Dallas, Austin etc. Try parading your flags in Dakka, Kabul, Islamabad, Istanbul, Jeddah etc. The irony being that homosexuality is absolutely rife in all of those countries.

Warning: contains very bad words.

For the avoidance of doubt, it isn't actually Joan Baez. But it skewers the sort of pathetic hardon for violence that people like Jones (and Dylan, and Baez) have when it's the right sort of violence against the right sort of victim.

Have people run out of things Owen Jones has actually said that they don't like to the point that they're having to make up things Owen Jones might say that they don't like, so they can carry on huffing about them?

"And now another one of these fanatic scum have murdered one of our policiers and his wife.

Owen Jones won't give a shit: just a breeder."

Fuck me - that's offensive. And I actually thought you were capable of rational debate- if a little dodgy on sources.

I think radicalrooster you need to get a grip, most mass shootings in America are done my non Muslims. I doubt he new the first thing about his so called religion. It seems to me as his ex wife says he committed this crime do to issues with his sexuality.

Have people run out of things Owen Jones has actually said

No, I haven't.

my support for the right of self-determination of Chechnya meant I militarily supported the Chechen rebels

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beslan_school_siege

"the capture of over 1,100 people as hostages (including 777 children),[5] and ended with the death of at least 385 people."

That's the sort of cunt that Jones is.

I unreservedly supported Yugoslavia militarily in fighting the imperialist onslaught

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slobodan_Milošević

The Hague war crimes trial was unable to reach a verdict because Milošević died. Hilariously, Jones talks about Blair as a "war criminal" and ignores his own enthusiasm and support for war criminals.

I do agree that the British Left always failed in its solidarity with the working class Republican movement

Is he going to tell us more about his support for the IRA? His "military" support for the IRA, indeed?

In one lengthy piece of email, he pledges allegiance to a war criminal, a terrorist group that attacked London and people that massacred hundreds in a school siege. He is, in fact, a cunt, who is a supporter of terrorism and has a massive hard-on for massacres.

Here's the whole piece, from which he has never resiled:

lists.csbs.utah.edu/pipermail/marxism/2000-August/041514.html

And for fun, of course:

twitter.com/OwenJones84/status/626302958586712064

"I vehemently oppose all IRA violence and have never expressed any support for it, so withdraw please."

So when he wrote "I militarily support the IRA", that wasn't support for the IRA's violence. Just the nice uniforms, presumably.

I agree Radical.