To think Owen Jones is childish

[sandrabedminster]

Owen Jones storms off sky news

I don't even get what his issue is, he's invited on to discuss the headlines and then runs off as he doesn't like how much attention the biggest story is getting.

*"was an attack on the LGBT community, carried out by a nasty piece of work nutter, who used Islam as his 'reason'.

I think there's a very large probability he'd have done it regardless."*

Um, but that's not entirely the point is it, because HE said he was doing it for ISIS and rather than them going, 'not in our name, mate', They have said 'yup, it was us'. So it's clear this is a multi-faceted crime.

The idea of 'ownership' is a really interesting one. Someone further back said it was disgusting to suggest the interviewer on sky-news didn't have the same strong feelings about the attack as say, a member of the LGBT community. I don't think it's disgusting.
I can understand the urge to say 'it is an attack on all of us' but equally, I can understand the urge to say, 'no, it was an attack on MY people.'

Oh get a grip. Two of my closest friends have been assaulted for being gay, here in the UK. I give many, many fuck about violence to LGBT people. I sobbed with rage when my friend was attacked, and I know it's part of a wider picture of prejudice.

But here we have a Muslim man, claiming allegiance to Isis, slaughtering innocents en masse in the name of his religion... but you don't want anyone to 'have a go' at Islam because the American Republican Party exists.

Your position is completely illogical. And you dare assume what other people's experience of everyday prejudice has been into the bargain.

It would be interesting to ask Jones to watch a recording of the Question Time just after 9/11 in which an audience who basically thought Americans deserved it reduced the US Ambassador to tears. And after which Mary Beard, who's always quick to complain about online abuse when it's her in the cross-hairs, wrote:

This wasn’t just the feeling that, however tactfully you dress it up, the United States had it coming. That is, of course, what many people openly or privately think. World bullies, even if their heart is in the right place, will in the end pay the price.

Jones was too young to be a cunt about 9/11, but Beard wasn't, and her subsequent objections to online abuse directed at her as a woman sit ill with her casual belief that all Americans deserve to die (for a clever woman, note her inability to see the difference between governments and their populous). I wonder what the young Owen said? I don't have the stomach to dive into the archives.

If you'd like to discuss the wider impact of prejudice and hatred towards LGBT around the world without any reference to Islam, maybe start that thread away from the one where the Islamic terrorist conducted the worst gun atrocity in US history.

Did you actually read my post? I'm not scared of discussing violence against LGBT. I discussed it in my post where I sobbed with rage. Are you able to read my words at all?

without you constantly wanting to make it about Islam.

er, ok, so ignore what he said and ignore what ISIS says. Got it.

Yet you've posted over and over and over about the US Republican Party who to my knowledge have no links to this attack.

Why do you only want to discuss the American Republican Party and not wider issues?

Ego. I'm sorry you've experienced abuse, but this thread is about the Orlando attack which was carried out by a Muslim who pledged allegiance to Isis. ( or to be specific Owen Jones on Sky news discussing the attack )
No one denies there is still a problem with homophobia generally, but this is about the attack in Orlando, the worst attack on the LGBT community ever! & that attack was carried out by a Muslim.

It's the same sort of thing as Lee Rigby.

This is what the beast has become now with ISIS.
Al Qaeda were organised, a leadership structure, cells who although isolated followed 'the plan'.

Radicalised Islamists are now operating alone and in isolation.
They are ostensibly lone nutters who are filled with hate and whichever group they choose to channel their hate towards gets it, with Islam providing a convenient 'reason' and ISIS quick to claim ownership of all atrocities carried out against 'infidels'.

Lee Rigby was in the wrong place at the wrong time - any soldier would have done.
The people in Orlando were chosen because they were in a gay club.

I agree wholeheartedly with the comments up thread re lefty liberals tied upon knots now.
Extremism was defendable to them when the perpetrators were 'fighting back against the invaders' and targeting soldiers - but now it's a minority group that has been targeted they cannot make sense of it.

It is, also important to discuss how ISIS have made every little murderous gay-hating, Western-hating, Police-hating, woman-hating, Jewish-hating cunt feel very important and powerful, and have given them some mad kind of legitimacy or focus for their grievances.

Or don't you believe that?

I think Lee Rigby is a good parallel.

Everyone can be a target: people lying on deckchairs in Tunisia, people enjoying Eagles of Death Metal, people riding on a bus...

Some may have been LGBT, some not, but they have all been targeted in the name of Islam.

Obviously this particular attack was a homophobic one, but it's all part of the larger "you are a load of infidels" picture, and it is ludicrous to start Top Trumping as to who is the greatest victim.

By a man, by an American, by a homophobe. He was not just a Muslim.

Agree.

But thanks to the way ISIS operates, his actions have been attributed & claimed and are now a 'terrorist attack'.

Which perfectly muddies the waters for Trump et al to make it about Muslims & conveniently ignore the fact that he was able to legally obtain the weapons and wreak carnage yet again in America.

ISIS have made every little murderous gay-hating, Western-hating, Police-hating, woman-hating, Jewish-hating cunt feel very important and powerful, and have given them some mad kind of legitimacy or focus for their grievances.

Yes!
Absolutely this.

The French police officer and his wife who were murdered today - by someone claiming allegiance to ISIS - can we discuss ISIS role in this or is that not the point?

Mango I understand about these lone nutters - or people who genuinly have mental health issues.

However, we are talking about hate preachers, encouraging people to kill gay people one was in Orlando in March. Someone hasn't decided to pick up the Quroan, and by themselves interpret some ancient text on gays and decide to kill.

There is - much hatred to gay people being espoused by - bible bashers in the states - YES but more so and more wide spread by strong, powerful, rich elements in Islam.

I said this earlier in the thread, yes I get bible bashers making situation bad, worse etc, but as far as I know - no bible bashing hate preachers are currently on world tour preaching to kill gay people? No bible bashers are throwing gay people off roofs? NO bible bashers are giving 50 lashes or the death sentence to a gay person trying to get a date?

are the bible bashers better or good? No! But they have not taken a gun and slaughtered 50 people - a Muslim who has just been to saudi has.

Did anyone else see the expose on Saudi recently? See the young children given school work books filled with hate, to kill jews, gays and so on? We need to wake up, and once and for all challange saudi on this spread of Salfi whabbism.

Helmut NO.

We must frame it as a police hate crime.