To think Owen Jones is childish

[sandrabedminster]

Owen Jones storms off sky news

I don't even get what his issue is, he's invited on to discuss the headlines and then runs off as he doesn't like how much attention the biggest story is getting.

[mamamea]

Owen Jones is the sort of person who stood by for years while Richard Dawkins spoke against Christianity, but as soon as Dawkins attacked Islam, Jones suddenly started ranting and raving about Islamophobia.

And don't listen to the fools/liars who would have you believe he magically grew out of supporting murderous terrorists the minute he completed his GCSEs - nope, he was at their summer school last year.

[MaudGonneMad]

He was at an IRA summer school?

Or do you mean a Sinn Féin one? You know, the legitimate and democratically-elected political party who represent the majority of nationalists in Northern Ireland and who are in a power sharing government?

[mamamea]

Sorry, link www.irishnews.com/news/2015/07/22/news/british-author-passionate-believer-in-a-united-ireland-199573/

[Bolograph]

A working class movement does not mean a violent campaign.

So what do you think that would consist of, roughly? They were an armed group, not noted for their ability to canvass at doors and build consensus. In other news, the SAS aren't the best people to get over to organise a street party. Had he said "Sinn Fein" the argument might have legs: even though the IRA and Sinn Fein contained some of the same people, it was the movement from violence to democracy (which he dismisses as "capitulation") which ended the violence, and Sinn Fein's ability to moderate the behaviour of former terrorists was eventually what brought a semblance of peace.

The language of the IRA's surrender is the language of the Continuity IRA and other revanchist groups. Jones was writing eighteen months or so after the Omagh bombing, which was precisely the sort of stuff that people who complained about the "capitulation" of the IRA were capable of perpetrating.

[BertrandRussell]

An IRA Summer School?

You couldn't make it up.

[BertrandRussell]

Or is being in favour of a United Ireland not allowed any more?

[UnderTheGreenwoodTree]

Wanting or supporting a united Ireland is not the same as supporting terrorism.

And YY Bertrand - I'm not his biggest fan either - but I can't believe the way this thread has turned. Harping back to the year 2000 to dig dirt on him, stuff he wrote as a child, stuff he's retracted, and accusing him of not caring about other deaths is a real low.

[BertrandRussell]

"Jones responded that he was 15 years old at the time and protested: “I was completely wrong about that and many other things. I was a child. This is contemptible.”

Time for loads of retractions, bolograph.

But start with the hideous, homophobic "breeder" comment.

[MaudGonneMad]

Jones was writing eighteen months or so after the Omagh bombing, which was precisely the sort of stuff that people who complained about the "capitulation" of the IRA were capable of perpetrating.

And he stated last year that he was 'completely wrong' about that. Not sure why you won't acknowledge that.

[MorrisZapp]

I was directly accused of not giving a fuck about violence against LGBT people here on the thread. I was kindly backed up by some posters but I saw no outrage from you, Bertrand.

How bad an accusation do you think it is, to be accused of only caring about violence depending on the sexual orientation of the victim? I was bloody furious. I may even have said 'how dare you'.

[BertrandRussell]

" was kindly backed up by some posters but I saw no outrage from you, Bertrand."

I didn't see it. If I had, and thought it was unwarranted, my outrage would have been there.

I hope that experience means you will condemn bolograph's allegation in very strong terms.

[ChipStix]

I'm not his greatest fan either ... but everyone has stupid ideas when they are 16.

[Theydontknowweknowtheyknow]

I'm surprised he lasted as long as he did. They were extremely dismissive and of course it is different when it's "your people" even though others may empathise.

Why? Because it reminds you that there are people out there who hate you and want to harm you just for being you.

[Helmetbymidnight]

Taking lgbt out of the equation is wrong (I agree with oj on this)

However taking Isis out of the equation, as pp have suggested,, is also wrong. I don't know why anyone would deny the link.

[derxa]

I'm surprised he lasted as long as he did. They were extremely dismissive and of course it is different when it's "your people" even though others may empathise. I actually believe he was completely heartfelt in his actions.

[Theydontknowweknowtheyknow]

ALL the factors are important. But it's which factors people believe are worth talking about, or feel too afraid to talk about or feel aren't being talked about enough that differ.

To recap:
He was a Muslim.
He was homophobic.
He had easy access to weapons.
He was a he.

Only one of those things NEVER gets talked about and I can understand why. No one wants to tar a whole demographic with the same brush and besides there isn't much you can do about it anyway. But it shouldn't be swept under the carpet either.

[LassWiTheDelicateAir]

He is an odious, self- satisfied, twerp who is very selectively hypocritical in which groups he supports.

[BertrandRussell]

Do we actually know that him being a Muslim was specifically relevant? I know he was claimed by ISIS at the beginning, but didn't he say he was associated with Al Quaida as well? Do we know anything?

[Helmetbymidnight]

I think him calling Emergency services and swearing allegiance to ISIS is massively relevant. I think ISIS subsequently 'claiming' it is massively relevant.

We need to look at how ISIS have got every two-bit criminal the world over working for them and we need to break that appeal/connection.

Pretending it's nothing to do with ISIS is foolhardy.

[YourPerception]

Evil recruiting evil.

[BertrandRussell]

No, I'm not pretending it's nothing to do with ISIS- it might very well be.

But he also claimed to be doing to for Al Quaida- who I thought were moral enemies with ISIS.

So we don't actually know, do we? Or have I missed a news report?

[Helmetbymidnight]

No I didn't mean you are, I meant in general.

The idea that it has nothing to do with ISIS when HE says it is and when THEY say it is.

I can well imagine he also declared allegiance to Al Quaida! I don't get that he was a great intellectual somehow.

[Justanotherlurker]

TBF helmet, he did also say the Tsarnaevs were the other "groups" he swore allegiance to.

I think the more that comes out this wasn't an ISIS lone wolf attack, this was an attack by an individual who then gave 'ISIS' as a reason, something that anyone could do, no matter what the level of connection they have with that group, that isn't to say his religion and messed up family didn't play a part, he did go to Saudi a couple of times etc

[Helmetbymidnight]

yes, I agree that it looks like this was an attack by an individual who then gave 'ISIS' as a reason - but that's where we are now - these twats aren't needing ISIS organisation and direction anymore, they are self-directing.

The leaders of ISIS don't need to do anything: they can just sit back and watch disaffected young men the world over decide to murder on their behalf.
It's horrific.

[AlPacinosHooHaa]

Do we actually know that him being a Muslim was specifically relevant?

Well his family hail from Afghanistan, whats that countries attitude to Gay people? Whats his culture, his back ground? States, yes, but his father his mother> Has his father said anything in the aftermath .

what is Islams policy towards gay people? etc etc etc This guy was muslim and went to saudi, again what is saudi form of Islam> how does Saudi treat gay people? and so on.

I think then we may get an idea of its relevance.