To be livid that friend shouted at my child?

[TinyDancer69]

I am a single parent to my DS who is almost 4. Over the last year I have become close to my friend and her family and they have provided a huge amount of support to me. I am in the process of decorating my new house and she and her DH ave been amazing in terms of the support they have given me with painting, ripping out old carpets, tidying garden etc. Just general all-round helpful. Also very good and kind to DS who enjoys seeing them too.

I have noticed that on a few occasions if my DS misbehaves (as all toddlers do) she will tell him off even though I am right there. She's never shouted but it makes me uncomfortable. So I made a mental note that if it happens again I would say something. I hate confrontation but will not allow someone to tell off DS without my say-so.

We went to dinner with her family to celebrate a charity event they'd just completed. DS was sat next to friend and her DH and having a blast and I was relaxed and enjoying my night, knowing DS was in 'good' hands and I chatted to others at the table.

Then I heard her shout at DS to stop doing whatever it was (think he was messing around with his drink and spilling it). It startled me and was in my view out of line. I went to DS who looked taken aback and took him away from the table to 'chat' to him about incident. In fact I just wanted him away from the table and her. He calmed down,we returned to table and carried on. But I was and am fuming. I think those around the table knew I was not happy but probably thought it was due to DS misbehaving. I didn't say anything and we all went our separate ways a little while later.

But I am very unhappy but maybe I'm overreacting? If it was family, then fine. Or if DS was going to cause himself harm or someone else harm, then I would totally be ok at her telling him off.

I feel cooler towards her now but it's awkward because I feel indebted to her as she's been an otherwise great friend to me.

Any views/advice welcome!

One of the things I've found myself doing is, when I see a situation at playgroup or with friends, where something wrong is going on, I will tell the child I know best to stop whatever it is they're doing. This is because my friends all have much the same attitude to child behaviour correction as I do - we all look out for each other's and tell them off as appropriate. But where I don't know the other parent so well, I will call my own child over, or tell them to stop, to avoid this sort of conflict.

For e.g. - at one of the playgroups I go to, there is a very disruptive child whose mum seems to think that's all fine, just boys being boys etc. So when I see him starting something with my own DS2 or my friend's, I call to them to stop, come away, whatever. This does help, because it distracts both children and stops the situation developing. But I have to be very careful not to make the child on the back end of it feel as though they are the one in the wrong!
It can be tricky. But better than getting into a "fight" of my own with the miscreant child's mother!

One person's 'shout' is another person's normal speaking voice. I know, because I come from a loud family and have a loud voice myself. When excited/agitated that voice becomes louder and dh often tells me not to shout when I am not, in my opinion, shouting at all.

Maybe this woman is the same? She sounds an absolute godsend. If more people took a bit more responsibility for other people - both children and the elderly, and anyone else inbetween - the world would be a nicer place.

Just want to add though to the OP, I don't join others here in saying your parenting is lax. But if your friend saw something she wanted stopped, and you didn't because you were having a nice conversation with someone else, then it is perfectly reasonable of her to be the one to stop your ds.

Pollyputhtekettleon
There was no smack Fascicle, stop adding drama where there is none.

You misinterpret. My point was hypothetical. The friend has exceeded OP's idea of acceptable disciplining for her child. At what point would posters supporting the friend's actions draw the line when it comes to friend using methods at odds with OP?

I was an only child, with much older parents. They never shouted at me, just explained. I was totally traumatised at secondary school aged 11 when a male teacher shouted at the class. I was totally shocked, as I'd never heard my father raise his voice, and I still remember it 40 years later. I don't think anyone else even noticed!
Therefore, I think experiencing a bit of occasional controlled shouting is actually encouraging him to be more resilient! It shows him a bit of shouting doesn't matter.

There is a difference between shouting and raising your voice and using a stern tone. That can be very effective.
Always taking your child's side and refusing to let others reprimand your child is not good parenting, although I'm sure the OP realises that.

Fascicle, I think it is a good point but not relevant for this thread and would likely derail it. Certainly a topic for another thread of its own if you want a discussion on that topic.

Sukey Big difference between teachers occasionally shouting/imitating a foghorn e.g. to organise/maintain control in large space, and an adult shouting at a child next to her, not hers, at a meal table with others present and mother in close proximity.

Shouting at an individual is rarely ideal and wouldn't be considered acceptable e.g. between adults in a public setting.

Your friend sounds awesome! Can I have her?

i agree with Sukey and Mimsy, and I think YABU and overthinking. If she had a serial habit of overstepping, then fine, but I wouldn't lose a good and sensible friend when I was a LP. TBH, children benefit from different styles, I'm a pushover for the most part, whereas DH takes much less rubbish and DD acts up much less with him, it's good to have a friend that's a bit firmer so your DC gets used to having to behave in different settings. I think the issue is you feel undermined but you should let it go for a one-off, and you do need to be able to relax and accept help.

OP, YOU were there, nobody on here was. If you think she was OTT and you were startled by it then I would think she probably was, especially given the other background information on how much you like her and how helpful she has been to you. What I mean is you have no interest in being touchy or finding fault with her because you think of her very positively so you'd most likely be giving her more leeway than some random person you didn't know very well.

I'm always a bit nauseated by the MN self congratulatory wholesale agreement that the person doing the telling off MUST be right and generally you must be a PFB parent who can see no wrong in her bratty child. It seems to me to come from a position of always believing that they know what's best for other people's children so they project that onto their posts. Really arrogant I think.....

I think you've had a hard time on here and I also agree with PP that some people seem to think they have more right to step in and deal with disciplining children when it's a single parent family; very disrespectful and dismissive really but a symptom of how single parents are viewed as a whole in society I guess.

I'd keep an eye on things. Maybe she was just a bit stressed out and went a bit OTT.

If someone is about to pour their drink over me, either accidentally or on purpose, I'd shout, if only to alert them to the fact that it was about to happen.

I'm talking about the children who are terrified of raised voices in any context, fascicle. Of course I realise there are several reasons why children might be like this, but the ones I'm talking about are the timid children from very quiet homes who have never heard a raised voice. Schools can be noisy places so it does them no favours to never learn that sometimes adults shout, and it doesn't mean they're being aggressive, or that it's something to be scared of.

NikiFury Thank you for your support - much appreciated. I have no reason to find fault at all tbh. The opposite in fact. But my gut feel was that it was just wrong. I can't ignore that. This is not a one-off, rather a pattern and I don't like it. She made throw away comment a couple of weeks' ago that my son just wanted attention. It took me by surprise as he was shattered having just spent the day in nursery. I was taken aback and foolishly didn't say anything, because then I feel I'm just making excuses for his behaviour. My child is not difficult by ant stretch, and I can assure posters who have suggested otherwise, that I am perfectly capable of dishing out discipline when required. I do not just leave him to misbehave and chat away regardless. I do keep an eye on him!

I think she sounds rather unpleasant towards your child tbh and I would be firmly nipping it in the bud. The wanting attention thing, I think I would have said quite firmly "well maybe, but he's tired and had a long day so we will be off now so he can chill out". A few responses like this might take care of her need to step in unnecessarily with your child.

well, let's hope you don't firmly nip their support in the bud too Op - my friends have said much worse to me about my parenting, as has my mum. Maybe you've seen a bit too much of each other recently and need a break?

It's funny though isn't it how for much of parenting we are implored to trust our instincts, yet when it comes to letting others tell our kids off we should just passively allow it because if we don't we must be PFB and unaware that we are raising horrible brats and only onlookers can see it. The OP has noticed it over a period of time and given lots of benefit of the doubt but this time feels it's gone too far. I wouldn't be trading a bit of support for allowing someone free reign over my child.

Maybe you should have been looking after your child then.

PirateFairy - do me a favour and read the full thread will you. Then comment.

I agree OP that it sounds as though they're being controlling towards your child, and by extension, you. You don't want it to get to an "After ALL we've done for you!" situation. Maybe it's time to step back from them for a bit.

you see, the support would be worth a lot to me, I'd be grateful for it, I'd distance myself temporarily and I'd see how it was after a little break. I've had friends I've spent too much time with, and when you start getting on each other's nerves it's not generally time for the nuclear option, it's time for cooling off and giving it a bit of space. If someone was generally nice and cared about me and my DC I'd wait a long time before falling out with them but maybe you've got many people falling over themselves to be involved in your life. Does your DS like your friend?

Don't think anyone is saying go for the "nuclear" option are they? All I can see is recommendations for some assertiveness on behalf of her child. I'm a single parent of two with very little input from their Dad so I know how tough it can be and I also know how it feels to be patronised and slightly bullied into things I am not comfortable with because there's no man about and I am less respected because of it. Not sure if that's going on here, I would say probably slightly but also most people don't even realise they're doing it sadly,

See I think sometimes instinctive reactions can be misleading. Our instinctive reactions as parents are to protect our children and ensure they're happy. But this shouldn't be at the expense of them growing to become responsible and thoughtful members of society. Sometimes these two things conflict. Your child in tears after a telling off can be difficult to watch but it is entirely necessary.
If you feel able to or talk to this friend and set boundaries then do so.
If not, the you need to ensure that the situation doesn't occur again and be vigilant when you are with them.
I'm still not sure whether she shouted in alarm or anger?? There's a big difference.

Op friendships can be controlling too and it's not right!

I had a friend who seemed to constantly want to help (aleays unasked) but was always there anyway. I felt uncomfortable as she seemed quite pushy but couldn't put my finger on it as after all she was only being nice right?

We then went away for a week and it was hell on earth! I was told what to eat and when to sleep and she treated me like a child! We had words and when we got back I found out that she was telling people that I was useless and lazy and ungrateful and all she ever tried to do was help.

She has since done the same to several other people!

So the point is ..are you the friend who is asking for help and gratefully receiving it?) in which case YABU that level of help is on par with family in my book)

Or

Is your friend seeing you as a charity case who is completely incapable of surviving without her help? (In which case YANBU, she probably sees you as completely incapable including parenting of your child)

One is a gift of friendship and the other is providing total self gratification for friend!

Fatal consequences fucking hell, really? A 3yr old spilling a drink could lead to fatalities? Who fucking knew?

Op I see you're still getting a kicking off those who have'nt read the full thread.

Fwiw, as you were only a few feet away the friend should've told the you to have a word with your son if he was about to cause a fatality, and if you want to refer to your 3yr old as a toddler, go ahead, I'm sure thats how I described my then 3yr old too.

If you leave a child in someones care even if you're there isn't it pretty much expected that they will pull the child up on behaviour? especially if they feel you have left them to do that? If you dont want anyone else to tell them off then why not politely suggest they come and tell you if there is an issue and you'll deal with it? but in some instances of urgency this obviously this wouldn't work.
You didn't witness what he did so you didn't witness how many times she asked him nicely to stop until the point which assuming he almost knocked it over and she raised her voice? - Why didn't you question it to find out for sure?

totally not cool to discipline another person's child when the parent is right there, refer it to them I think it depends on the situation it sounds as though the Op friend believes the op left him in her care therefore she probably wouldnt think twice before telling him off along with most people in this situation. Maybe she was letting Op have a good time socialising and get to know new people (something I found quite difficult as a single mum) maybe she thought it was for the best her dealing with the situation it rather than interrupting the op.

Just out of interest if it was witnessed your Ds was messing with his drink and went all over someone, your friend was in charge and she didnt stop him because she came to tell you but it was too late, or broke something expensive the same way and you had to cover the cost, would you have still been upset about her telling him off and preventing it?

Bullying is one thing, telling a child off for being naughty is another.

If it's the latter then it's not worth losing a friendship over and it can only do good if the child is being disciplined. Plenty of undisciplined children about.....