To think if i call social services ...

[IsThisForTheBest]

Then they will support someone in need rather than remove their child?

I ve name changed for this as this is going to be very identifying.

Last week me and dh went to bil house and we got a shock!

Bil has learning difficulties and a brain injury (water on the brain as a baby and has had over 20 operations on his brain)

He has sole custody of his pre teenage son (mother estranded from them)

We have always know his house to be filthy. Dh and his brother was brought up like that and his brother thinks his house is clean. Last week im sure it was worse!

I wouldnt even go to the toilet there or have a brew and i didnt even want to lean back on the sofa! I refuse to take my dd there as he is a heavy smoker too.

He has always been volatile and has behavioural issues. He has an obsession with calling people cunts, twats, faggots etc.

He is forcing his child to call people a faggot in the street etc.

His son has no social skills and has poor speech.

His son has gained approx 2 stone in weight in the last year and when we saw him last week he was very clearly very over weight. He had always been very very slim.

He openly admits to allowing his son to buy big bags of crisps every day after school and only drink cola. No water or anything else.

He doesnt have a social worker. Last week when dh went to the shop with bil, bil was shouting to people in the street calling them a MILF.

He is extremerly vulnerable with money and will offer his bank card out to his neighbours so they can use it!

He has been taken advantage of a few times.

When he was driving he used to drive very irratic around the street and used to think it was funny.

He has since had his licence revoked due to health reasons but did mention he may be getting it back.

I think bil could do with some support (we are 2.5hours away) and im thinking if social services pay him a visit they could put some support in place for him, maybe send him on some courses etc and assign him a social worker.

Dh has gone mad at this idea as he feels ss will just take his son away and he doesnt want that on his conscience. He feels that any stress towards his brother will result in him needing brain surgery again (this does tend to happen when he is under enormous pressure ) and he doesnt want to be responsible for that.

I dont think its wise dh speak to him about the way he behaves and the state of the house as he will be very defensive and volatile towards dh and he just wouldnt get anywhere with him.

Aibu to think he needs social services help and they will give him support rather than take his son away from him?

Poor kid. Could you maybe contact the school and let them take it from there? At least to see if anything improves over a couple months. If not, you'll need to make that call and before he gets to high school and his life is made a misery.

OK - there are a couple of people claiming to be SWs on here - can't remember the first one who talked about Family Group Conferences and I assume Restless is a SW as she talks about "my agency" though I find her lack of understanding of child care law somewhat worrying.

There's a lot of talk about the boy being "taken in" by relatives etc etc. But everyone is missing the salient point and I understand perfectly why those who are not SWs would not understand this, but how SWs can miss it, is a puzzle.

I'll try to explain:

There are 3 ways a child can be removed from the parent who has Parental Responsibility (PR)

1. The parent agrees for the child to be removed and placed elsewhere with relatives or foster carers, or god forbid, residential care. This used to be called "voluntary care" but is now S.20 of the Children Act 1989.

The PR remains with the parent and so they can request the child is returned to their care. If the LA believe the child is likely to suffer significant harm if he is returned, and have sufficient evidence they can go to court to request an Emergency Protection Order (EPO) If this is granted it lasts for 7 days and after that, the LA can apply to the Family Court to request the Judge make an Interim Care Order (ICO) and if granted the PR is held by the LA. The parent doesn't lose PR entirely but the LA is in the "driving seat" so to speak. There follows a process until the final hearing when a decision is made about the child's future but I'm trying to make the point about removing a child from a parent.

2.The child can be removed by the Police under a Police Protection Order (PPO) which lasts for 72 hours and the parent is not allowed to have the child returned to him. If the LA believe that he is likely to be significantly harmed if returned at the end of this period then they can take the steps outlined in 1. above.

1. The LA have reason to believe that a child is suffering significant harm and so they apply to the Court for an EPO and if granted the child can be removed and at the end of the 7 days, the LA can if they see fit follow the procedure outlined in 1. above.

And yes there can be a Family Group Conference and I have known them to be reasonably successful, but also to have gone horribly wrong. But there's little point in talking about anything like this without a basic understanding of child care law laid out in the CA 89.

There is also the issue of the Public Law Outline (PLO) and don't claim to have any real knowledge about this legislation as it came onto the statute book after I had retired.

So all this talk of the boy being "taken to live with relatives" etc is only going to happen if the parent agrees (as in 1) or as outlined in 2 and 3 above.

Additionally in the CA 1989 it is outlined that a child's wishes and feelings must be taken into account if he is of an age to understand the issues.

I'm not saying this family don't need help - of course they do, but I'm just being realistic. I hope there can be family support worker allocated to the case if the parent is willing for this intervention, but somehow I don't think he will be - I hope I'm wrong.

There don't appear to be any concerns from the school, so we can assume that his attendance is regular and he turns up in school uniform etc. Primary schools are usually much more attuned to the child's welfare than secondaries because of the sheer size of the school.

But do refer OP if you wish but I still think it would be helpful for your DH to be I more frequent contact to monitor the situation and maybe provide some support to his brother and nephew. Could he not talk to the boy and see how he feels about his father and how they are living.

Nina yes I am a practicing Social Worker, I said my 'authority' and please don't call my practice into to question. If you read my post back you'll see it pretty much says what your says I just didn't wanted to make it easier for 'laypeople' to understand. Although it's being advised against we and other authorities still use 'informal arrangements' if we think family
Members can care for a child while other arrangements are made. These do not require a section 20 but do require permission from the person with PR. If not we would have a PLO them look to going to court.

*Sorry, that was supposed to read 'I just wanted to make it easier for
'Laypeople' to understand.

I have just had a case were the children were removed because of home conditions without any of the other issues mentioned here. Maybe we have very different thresholds.

I also find it extremely worrying that a retired manager would find deem that this child
Is OK to remain in the home.

At the very least can your dh not see his brother needs help? If he won't agree to his nephew being referred for support can he not see his brother desperately needs it and so get him seen by adult services? If you perhaps approach it that way he may see it as less threatening (although they'll still link in the same way)

I always worry when people come onto mn proclaiming to be absolute authorities on a subject matter, especially relating to health and social care where county and District boundaries play such a huge role in how matters are dealt with due to availability of resources.

Yes the laws are the same but every LA approaches them in a different way

Someone somewhere along the line needs a kick up the arse, here.
He is vulnerable and has the responsibility of a child. He has no social worker, and none of this little boy's teachers reading between the lines seem to have a clue what the fresh hell is going on. Theyve not noticed his lack of social skills
You really don't have a choice here, op. There is only only option. You have to call ss

Restless - I am currently looking after part of a sibling group who were removed due to home conditions too, no physical or sexual abuse and the children seem delightful and well loved. I'm not sure whether NanaNina's experience was in a very poor LA or is out of date, or whether she has her own issues, but my own experience of fostering fir 15 years is nothing like what she describes child protection to be. Our LA coordinates both their and voluntary agencies like Homestart to help families, and this also identifies families who won't change.
The 'permission' of a sec 20 is a bit of a joke really - in my experience it's a case of if they don't agree to Sec 20, it's made very clear it will go to ICO which tends to be less favourable re contact. So most parents do it, not through. Choice but pragmatism.

shazza if everyone just left kids to be abused because it wasnt their place to report it would be a sad world

i think you should tell dh youre reporting as its just not fair o his nephew-wold he ever forgive himself if something happened to him

I agree this needs reporting

If the dad has such needs I'm amazed someone isn't involved already TBH

I think your DH is having a laugh and massively underplaying the circumstances your BIL and DN are living in with this comment

'He says everybody is like that round there (it is a very deprived area)'

I grew up on a council estate in a very deprived area and while the chippy might have done more brisk business than the library what you describe is not normal everyday life anywhere.

Thank you for the patronising post Nina. I am not 'claiming' to be a social worker. I am a senior social worker and wanted to give my advice in lay mans terms.

I am more than aware of processes but there would need to be a referral and assessment to establish the risk of significant harm.

The OP does not need her DH's permission to report this.

The nephew doesn't need the adults in his life to fanny about serving 'targets' and what-have-you, he needs them to act. Now. It would be nice if his own uncle could be the one to do that, but at least his wife is up for it.

Make the call, OP.

Another port of call (although I firmly believe SS should be your first and most urgent call) is Mencap. They are a charity to support people with learning disabilities/difficulties and, crucially, their families.

NannyNina, I have been reflecting on your post and I really think you need to rethink your stance an advice. You always mention you worked for SS for 30 years, which gives such credence to what you have to say, but time after time I see you minimising abuse, and telling people that nothing will be done. This is so dangerous - it is our responsibility as concerned friends, family and neighbours to report abuse and protect children. It may not always be acted upon, but repeated referrals and concerns do build a picture and can lead to things being taken seriously. One if my foster children was removed after and extremely serious crime in his sibling. It turned out that school and neighbours had all been aware of issues but no-one had made the call. This is how children die - when they are invisible. I know you mean well nanny, but you must have retired many years ago not to be clued up with PLO and maybe you worked for a very poor authority? Because the picture you paint is not what I or many people currently working relate to.

Morning all.

Many thanks for taking the time to give advice.

I will ring his local social services tomorrow. Im not going to tell dh.

I cant speak to the school as i dont know the school name as i said above its not an english name and i cant for the life of me remember it.

I dont know his address. I know where it is and the area but i dont know the name of the street as again its not english language and i cant read the street names never mind pronounce them!

Dh doesnt know the street name but knows exactly how to get there.

They will be very easily traceable though due to unusual names etc.

He never misses school.

Dh and i work very long hours which is why we dont see him often.

Dh has mentioned that he feels i have very high standards and have no idea how people generally live. He has a job which means he goes to peoples houses and he seems to think he has seen people live like his brother time and time again.

However i will ring them so at least ss can make the decision for themselves as to whether they think its normal everyday living standards etc.

Are you not in the uk? All the support will be different in a different country

Its the uk

I would think you need to give a home address as a basic referral. How will social services contact them if they don't know where they live or what school your nephew attends? I think you will need to give these before they do an assessment.

There must be a system were if you type their name into it and area they should come up?

Even without him having a son, the fact that he is himself very vunerable he should be in contact with social services. They don't just deal with children.

He has a child with him though, and that children deserves a stable home life. I come from a dysfunctional home life and I was brought up in a deprived part of the country, this situation with your bil is not the norm and is pretty extreme.