To think that students shouldn't be making teachers cry FFS!.

[Theydontknowweknowtheyknow]

...and that the school system is essentially fucked because teachers have too many pressures and are treated like crap?

DS is not good at Maths. He's not badly behaved but is not good at Maths hence he is stuck in a set where the kids tend to be badly behaved.

The teacher is obviously not a native English speaker but DS says he is perfectly understandable. His classmates however are constantly teasing this poor man about his English. It became so bad today that the teacher actually cried and then lost it and yelled at the kids that he spoke 5 languages and they only spoke one.

I feel so sorry for this guy. He must be at the end of his tether but how can he possibly teach and be effective with 30 students, all the marking, planning and politics. I feel like it's an impossible task.

But what can the government/society do to make teachers' lives easier, especially when you consider the drop out rate or is it just inevitable that with so little money and so many children to educate that the school system is essentially fucked?

CodyKing

When ofsted come to your school they give out a link t a survey for all parents to fill in.

Parents can already tell Ofsted what they think of the school at any time

parentview.ofsted.gov.uk

I understand what you mean, purple, but when it comes to SEN the willingness of schools to even refer children is dire. I hear the same story over and over again - admittedly this is within the SEN community so obviously I'm going to see it more often - school refuses to acknowledge there's an issue past it being a naughty child/poor parenting problem, parent engages and works with the school, nothing improves, school labels child and family as 'troubled'.

Getting referred in the first place via school is very hit and miss.

Frog That is why some people get referred via their GP. I am at high school and pupils are generally already on the path -those that have been able to are identified here at least. But I guess that is why we are over subscribed!

If we are talking about the individual students who cause the biggest problems, it really isn't the spoilt darlings. I teach in alternative provision, and so deal pretty much exclusively with the students who caused the biggest problems, to the extent that they are no longer there. Not one spoilt darling among them. Backgrounds and experiences that are upsetting, yes.

Fallen it's not a competition you know! As teachers we all know the sort of children that end up in a unit and know their backgrounds.
We are talking about the sort of pupils who ruin every lesson and have a sense of entitlement.

Like the ones this ex-teacher is describing: "I am sick and tired of the appalling attitude and behaviour of a large minority of teenagers who have no respect for their peers or adults, who think they are entitled to use their phones whenever they want, who complain that lessons are not entertaining enough, who expect to be able to pass GCSEs without making any effort, how it is always someone else's felt if they get something wrong and who rush off to complain if you dare say anything negative about them. I could go on about constant foul language and other things but I am sure most people on this forum know perfectly well what I mean.
I am also totally fed up with the attitude of schools who expect you to do well more than a full days work for less than a full days pay because of "the cost of agencies" or that we "haven't got the money". Then don't employ numerous Deputy Heads and Assistant Heads who just seem to sit in their office for most of the day dreaming up ideas about how everyone else should teach an 80% timetable or more while they come up with their brilliant lessons on 10% of a timetable. These same people then will not discipline pupils who swear at you or walk out of lessons or turn up late and expect individual attention. Instead you are told they have anger management problems and that you are the adult in the room and you should deal with it."

community.tes.com/threads/time-to-leave-how-do-you-know.738545/#post-11684138

There are far more students who stay in mainstream who have similar issues than end up in AP. Maybe ithe biggest source of problems depends on the school.

Is it possible that some students, by the time they get to high school are so turned off by the system that they are completely disengaged?

I've seen many a primary child slowly lose their self-esteem, self-respect and respect for the classroom because they system did little to meet their learning needs.

This is anecdotal but by the time I got to GCSE's I was so turned off by the relentless bullying that the school did fuck all about that I simply didn't care anymore.

I wasn't disruptive, I just, disengaged.

I taught a class in my NQT year who tried to break me, as a group. You know, group humming so you couldn't tell where it was coming from, refusing to shut up when I asked them to, hiding under the desks en masse, snarky comments about my teaching, with references to 'last year's teacher let us' or 'I wish we could have last year's teacher again'. Penises drawn on my pull down board. I bloody hated them, and you couldn't pin it on any particular one of them which they knew. Tell off anyone and it was 'X was doing it too' and they were all lawyers. Parents came in complaining that there was a 'personality clash' which really meant that their kids didn't want to follow my (totally reasonable) rules.

They didn't have SEN, they weren't any where near being excluded, it was all low-level insidious stuff that sounded completely pathetic if you reported it upwards but drove you utterly mad in the classroom. I was supported, kids were removed, senior teachers sat in my room and so on; if I hadn't been, and my boss had taken the side of the kids (and parents) it could have been very different.

The funny thing is is that the same class was then my favourite class the next year. They'd decided I was ok, plus I wasn't a new teacher any more. I relaxed a bit and they went on to get amazing results. They were nowhere near bottom set.

Kids will test inexperienced teachers. They will try to make them cry. If there's no support, they may well succeed. I've currently got a Y9 top set who I know are causing problems to other teachers (young, inexperienced teachers), and may well have made them cry. One kid in particular is very bright and will constantly try to wind me up, but because I'm older, experienced and established in the school they don't really try it on. I think the trick is to not get flustered, but that only really comes with time and experience.

Recent conversation with DS who copes with at least 6 children who play up all day everyday - very experienced teacher

DS - schools boring
Me - no you've switched off and aren't listening
DS - Jack threw a chair today and Miss cried! Is something wrong with her? She's crap
Me - I'd cry if I had a chair thrown at me - where's jack now?
DS - he's gone home to play on his Xbox, can I throw a chair and play my Xbox ?
Me - No I'd sell your Xbox and give the school the money for extra resources
DS that's not fair
Me Well it will be fair when you get a well paid job and Jack is still sat home in his Xbox.
Then we get on to Charlotte -
Charlotte called miss a bitch - she got to play in reception all afternoon ....

And so it goes on

Codyking, at my son's primary the children who misbehave are very often given special 'jobs' to do to keep them occupied and/or get them out of the room
God only knows what message it's giving to the well behaved children -
Play up and you too will get rewarded?

I wouldn't have thought it's a good way of doing things.

Pupils at a school near us you used to compete to get the cookery teacher to go and cry in the cupboard. This was 25 years ago.

Loved the actual thinking up ideas for lessons, teaching bit. Hated the behaviour management bit.

One class was awful at the end. Decided I didn't want to bother anymore. Looked at them all and told them I was going and wouldn't be back. They were horrified! They were 15/16 and almost ready for the workplace.

Never regretted leaving.

The "personality clash" thing is certainly parents trying it on. I always arranged a meeting with the member of staff, me and the parent. I always took in the child's work and a full report of behaviour across the school. The evidence tended to stop the argument. Yes, HoDs and SLT should support their staff.

I hate the 'personality clash' and 'he loved his English teacher last year' (when said English teacher cries about their behaviour. I teach a boy in year 8 this year and he is the most obnoxious child I have ever taught (in 18 years). He is owed. He thinks it so unfair he has to hand over his iPhone 6S when recording his classmates in class) That he has to take his £200 Nike trainers off (mum can't afford school shoes allegedly). That he can't swear when he wants to.
If I ask him to stop talking he will shout at me because another pupil was speaking ten minutes ago and I didn't ask her (she stopped when I gave her the look).
He plays the victim. Smirks and makes
Hideous comments about other class members. Has the highest number of poor behaviour cards in the year. The most detentions.
But guess what - mum says he can't do detention. So he gets a say in the RU. Sees it as a badge of honour.
I am getting there with him (from Christmas as his last teacher could not deal with him anymore). He knows his limits with me and I have at last won mum over. But I shouldn't have to.

Some parents on here sound a bit proud of themselves for having made their teachers suffer back in the day - only the teachers who deserved it, mind, because they didn't earn respect

Do you want the teacher who would make a good prison warden, excellent crowd control skills, or the teacher who will inspire the children with a love for maths? Ideally, the magical teacher would be both, but real life often presents you with one or the other, not both. The more we say teachers should 'toughen up' the more schools will be like crowd-management pens, the goal being to just keep the children contained and stop them from throwing furniture round.

Also, if you are a teacher who is very proud of your crowd-control skills, is that what inspired you to be a teacher - how good you are at keeping the little shits under control?

I have managed to engage bottom set maths many a time, I agree with other teachers students with SEND cause me very few problems, most are keen to do the best they possibly can and I enjoy teaching them as I get so many more lightbulb moments which make my day worth the work that goes into the job.

2 years ago I taught top set yr 11 and 3rd from bottom set yr 11 - on results day I was more interested in the 3rd from bottom set results as I knew for them getting a certain grade meant so much more to them than my top set students.

I also agree with others that some of these students on a 1-1 basis are lovely students, I have had many a conversation, discussions about how we can improve the situation - asking how we can move forward to improve the situation - most of the time it works - however with some characters back in class with an audience any plans previously discussed vanish and the comments return.

I will move heaven and earth for some students, tolerate and work with poorer behaviour for some who have plenty of reasons for not being engaged, poor home life, foster care, all sorts, but I have very little time for students who don't have a lot of these issues, but whose aim is to disrupt others education.

I would love for people from jobs they want to do to come in and tell them how they would be treated in the workforce if they behaved how they did in class. I do think some think they are teflon coated!

kawliga most of my classes I can 'control' without having to actively do anything. I have high expectations of students, I am clear with them at the beginning of the year what they are and I am consistent.

As for wanting teachers to protest about this, it is raised frequently as an issue however it is not something we are able to 'strike' about, and as soon as anyone mentions a teacher strike we get zero parental support as we mess up the childcare.

As most people we can only strike about pay and terms and conditions - I would love to strike over all the changes that have been put into place, with no research, no time and will have a huge impact on students but we are not allowed to.

I have high expectations of students, I am clear with them at the beginning of the year what they are and I am consistent.

I am sure there are other teachers who share these qualities, and still find themselves pushed to breaking point by out of control little feckers.

I happen to know someone who cried in class, in front of the dc who were deliberately winding him up, and he did have high expectations, clearly and consistently expressed. He teaches now in a private school where the kids are not out of control, and he is still a very good and effective and much-loved teacher with many successful pupils. He just sucks at crowd-control and has no prison-warder talent whatsoever (which is why he went into teaching, not security or policing).

As I said earlier in the thread - this year I have 8 classes, 7 I have no issues with except the odd student who pushes the boundaries but using the school system has worked.

I have one who I am counting down the lessons I have left to teach them, have had two students removed as they are effectively bullying me it has taken all year to reach this point.

I am not a perfect teacher but I am irritated by people on this thread who don't do the job telling some of us to 'grow some balls and suck it up' and effectively blame the teachers for all the issues.

No teacher is perfect, and certainly some teachers are completely useless at crowd-control of feral youths. And that's ok, since they didn't actually go into teaching out of a love of containing out of control youngsters.

What worries me, also, is that some parents have the opportunities and resources (not just money, but mainly money) to get their children out of these situations; the ones left suffering there often have no options. It is that school or nothing. They would love to learn, and the teacher (who is very good at teaching) would love to teach them, but unfortunately teacher has to do crowd-control instead (which they may be useless at).

kawliga
Some parents on here sound a bit proud of themselves for having made their teachers suffer back in the day - only the teachers who deserved it, mind, because they didn't earn respect hmm

There was (is still) a thread where someone invited posters to post the funniest things that they did to teachers, they complained about peoples teachers lack of a sense of humour when we complained and said that they where in fact bullying the teachers.

I can't remember if the thread was stopped and pulled or just ran out of pace and disappeared.

Yes, boney I've noticed even on this thread some posters seem to be enjoying repeating their war stories. 'When I was young we played tricks on the teacher and made her cry.' It is odd to come on a thread like this to recount your own exploits of how you made your teachers suffer. Just because it was long ago doesn't make it ok.

If the dc are hearing such stories from their parents they must also think it's all a great laugh, something hilarious to tell their own kids one day.

I haven't read the whole thread but I've recently left teaching after 15 years because of awful behaviour and goading from a significant number of (affluent white British) kids, both girls and boys. I mention the demographic because there was an article on the Guardian FB page earlier about behaviour, with one poster making assumptions about the nationality of the perpetrators.

Things have been tough for me over the last couple of years because my DM became ill and recently died. I knew it was coming and a combination of that and having moved home and job to support her has been more than I could cope with. There have been times when I have felt very close to tears in class and I'm afraid my ex colleagues must have been a bit when I sometimes couldn't hold it in after class.

What sincerely has not helped and has been instrumental in my decision to leave is the head in the school I started at in 2015 suggesting Mars Bars as a behaviour management tool within my first week (and I have pics of behaviour reports on which teachers offer reward of a king size Mars Bar and a cans of Monster); and in the previous school the head and her HOD daughter telling me that I must not expec to be respected, instead I must earn it. In what kind of society do we not start from respect and make our minds up from there?

I now loathe the idea of being in a classroom. Every school local to me this year has advertised two or more vacancies in my subject and I tested the water in what I thought would be the best with a day's supply. I will not be going back come hell or high water.

I dread my DCs starting secondary. I wish I could afford private (and I've always considered myself a socialist).