To think that students shouldn't be making teachers cry FFS!.

[Theydontknowweknowtheyknow]

...and that the school system is essentially fucked because teachers have too many pressures and are treated like crap?

DS is not good at Maths. He's not badly behaved but is not good at Maths hence he is stuck in a set where the kids tend to be badly behaved.

The teacher is obviously not a native English speaker but DS says he is perfectly understandable. His classmates however are constantly teasing this poor man about his English. It became so bad today that the teacher actually cried and then lost it and yelled at the kids that he spoke 5 languages and they only spoke one.

I feel so sorry for this guy. He must be at the end of his tether but how can he possibly teach and be effective with 30 students, all the marking, planning and politics. I feel like it's an impossible task.

But what can the government/society do to make teachers' lives easier, especially when you consider the drop out rate or is it just inevitable that with so little money and so many children to educate that the school system is essentially fucked?

[Smerlin]

I do see teachers cry in school periodically due to kids deliberately trying to wind them up. Unfortunately it is often the less experienced teachers who the pupils feel they can 'get to.' If you can stick it out and find your feet then it becomes much better. I can't think of anything a pupil could do now that would make me cry. Obviously I am talking about teachers crying after the class has left as well. If I felt it was getting to that stage, I would go to the classroom next door or the nearest office and ask for help I think.

[Smerlin]

I mean if it got to the stage of nearly crying in front of the pupils, then I would ask for help!

[EveryoneElsie]

Kids have a choice how to act when they are in the classroom. They can choose to comply or not.
I taught my horrors to sit and listen to the teacher, and they did.

[Theydontknowweknowtheyknow]

"Or where, if new teachers follow the behaviour policy, and actually refer disruptive pupils to senior management, those teachers will soon find themselves with a black mark against their name."

^^this. This happened to me but thankfully I quickly got out of teaching.

And it's such a shame because I feel like I had a lot to offer in that I was creative and knowledgeable but I just didn't have that steely personality to put up with the bad behaviour.

So many of my PGCE class have dropped put too. It seems such a waste of money and investment.

[tinytemper66]

Unless you teach you have no idea how children can make you feel and cry! I have wanted to walk out so many times because of how they are with each other and the fact they do no work. I have oi get them to pass GCSEs and there is no hope as they don`t care and feel like there are no deterrents. My day was made yesterday when I was told I would no longer teach a certain class next year! I am an experienced teacher with few discipline problems but on times a certain class can tip you over the edge, no matter how good you are. The combination of pupils in a class can ruin any prep and planning you do. I really do feel his pain! Sadly.

[MissMargie]

Yeah, so the arrogant little sods get no education.

Whinging about poor teachers means the little sods get no education - how the hell is that acceptable when so much of our taxes go on paying to educate the little shits.

I can't believe that posters think it's ok and 'life' that little shits get no education and the teachers are at fault.
ARe you happy your little DCs get no education????

The little shits don't know how important their education is, they don't know that they will be on the scrap heap. It is up to the adults in this world to ensure they get a good education. Saying 'teachers need to toughen up' just acknowledges that no education is ok.

[dingit]

At our academy there was such a shortage of maths teachers, one year 8 class had 60 students...

[elephantoverthehill]

Sorry I didn't mean to ask such a controversial question. I have been teaching for 30 years in the state sector, IME in core subjects such as English and Maths the HOD/ LL manages the setting of pupils and the movements of students within them. most HODs will make the top sets larger - 32/34 to protect the needs of the weaker students. Yes I know it is very difficult to recruit Maths teachers at the moment but if my Ds or Dd was struggling I would be asking the question about class size. Actually Dd was struggling in Maths and was put into a small group with an HLTA to support her learning and bring her up to speed.

[kesstrel]

And it's such a shame because I feel like I had a lot to offer in that I was creative and knowledgeable but I just didn't have that steely personality to put up with the bad behaviour.

We are losing a huge amount of talent this way, IMO, and lots of children are getting short-changed educationally in the process. As parents, we really ought to be up in arms about this. It absolutely should be the job of senior school managers to ensure that behaviour in their school is good, and allows all teachers to teach effectively, even the new ones and the supply ones. It's possible to do this, and some schools are doing it.

[apple1992]

I feel this current culture of blame is a large part of the problem. Challenge these kids and many parents will place the blame at ten door of the 'shit teacher' and will refuse to allow the school to sanction their child. I see this all the time. It is so hard without parental support.

[Theydontknowweknowtheyknow]

"I taught my horrors to sit and listen to the teacher, and they did."

But how? That's the key - to teach, really teach, trainee teachers how to control a class. But also to give teachers support and not blame them for bad behaviour.

[Theydontknowweknowtheyknow]

Bad behaviour of the pupils of course

[tinytemper66]

apple1992 I so agree with what you are saying!

[noblegiraffe]

I haven't cried at a class (or because of a class) since my PGCE 11 years ago, but bloody hell I was pushed right to the edge recently. One kid, whose last day it was so any threats of detention etc were laughed off, was being a total shit, egged on by a couple of others. I sent him out, he pissed about in the corridor, then he came back in to cause more trouble. I managed to get SLT to come and remove him. As far as the class were aware I was calm through the whole thing, but when I went to help a student, I noticed my hands were shaking and I was on the edge. It wasn't being upset, or taking anything personally, it was the adrenaline and sheer frustration at what had happened. Normally I can do this, but it was nearly the last day of a long term, the room was hot, I was absolutely shattered and running on empty.

It sounds like the teacher up thread is running on empty too. Don't blame him, if the class are as shitty as they sound. They need someone senior to come in and read the riot act to them, how fucking dare they behave like that.

[MammaTJ]

I was in a class that did this and to my shame was one of the people that made the teacher cry.

We were however in other classes together and did not dare behave in the same way in those classes.

The difference? The teachers and the amount of respect we had for them.

This was way back in the 80's, BTW!

[EveryoneElsie]

Teachers need full support from the parents and Head, and parents need to do the job of parenting.
Its utterly disgusting to me the way some people behave. I cant abide bullying and thats all this is.
We are losing good teachers to this.

[PortiaCastis]

Good post pearlman you could be my Mother posting, she teaches Maths and takes no prisoners

[kesstrel]

Yes, I've seen so many complaints from teachers about not learning anything about how to manage behaviour during their training. It was one of the major issues brought up by the Carter review of teacher training courses last year.

As for parents not supporting the sanctioning of their children, schools need to be free to suspend pupils if that's what's happening. I suspect most such parents would give way if confronted with that.

[chickenowner]

Children have never made me cry, but parents have.

[MissMargie]

The teachers and the amount of respect we had for them

I remember whinging to someone who had 5 DCs about a teacher and she said that her eldest really liked them.

So we can generalize about bad teachers, yes some struggle to discipline, but just because a teacher can enforce good behavior in the yobs doesn't necessarily mean they are a good teacher for the quiet or nervous pupil.

To judge a teacher solely on this seems unfair.

Perhaps the yobs should be removed from the class.

[AintNobodyHereButUsKittens]

My late grandmother's class of angelic 1930s schoolgirls set out to break a teacher who they saw as weak and they did so. They took subtle but effective measures and she had to retire with a nervous breakdown.

[inarmsofanangel]

I'm in the middle of a HTLA course and I've found it shocking. This is a primary school. I've seen pupils literally throwing chairs at TAs, shouting at teachers and swearing at them. throwing tables around so everyone else has to get out of the way. Running up and down the corridors screaming and hitting out at staff.
I'm starting at another school soon and i'd be very interested to see the difference or to get a picture of what is the norm. This school was converted to an academy and was rated 'needs improvement' by OFSTED.

My eldest is in year 1 (we moved here not long ago and couldn't find any other schools) and dd2 due to go to reception in Sept. DS1 will be en suite.
What you see in the playground is very different to what you see inside those doors.
I had hoped to take my TT as I have a degree and experience of teaching overseas but everyone I speak to who is in education says 'stay away!'
Teachers are having breakdowns due to the stress. I'm seriously worried I have started on the wrong track by doing this course.
I loved teaching abroad, but here the 'teaching' bit is the least of their troubles.