To think that students shouldn't be making teachers cry FFS!.

[Theydontknowweknowtheyknow]

...and that the school system is essentially fucked because teachers have too many pressures and are treated like crap?

DS is not good at Maths. He's not badly behaved but is not good at Maths hence he is stuck in a set where the kids tend to be badly behaved.

The teacher is obviously not a native English speaker but DS says he is perfectly understandable. His classmates however are constantly teasing this poor man about his English. It became so bad today that the teacher actually cried and then lost it and yelled at the kids that he spoke 5 languages and they only spoke one.

I feel so sorry for this guy. He must be at the end of his tether but how can he possibly teach and be effective with 30 students, all the marking, planning and politics. I feel like it's an impossible task.

But what can the government/society do to make teachers' lives easier, especially when you consider the drop out rate or is it just inevitable that with so little money and so many children to educate that the school system is essentially fucked?

[JenniferYellowHat1980]

Oh and I'm referring to schools in leafy suburbs / rural backwaters here.

[kawliga]

telling me that I must not expect to be respected, instead I must earn it. In what kind of society do we not start from respect and make our minds up from there?

You can see that attitude on this thread, and it's really sad when teachers take this attitude to their fellow teachers. Teachers who think it's understandable for their own colleagues to be treated that way in class because they have not 'earned' the respect or maybe because they didn't have high expectations clearly and consistently applied...if only they just did that the children wouldn't bully them.

Also parents who think, well the children wouldn't do that if you learned some strategies to earn their respect. You want to teach them maths? Because you love maths and you're good at it? Perish the thought! Instead of thinking about maths, you should be thinking about strategies to ensure that the children don't hurl furniture at you.

Meanwhile, in the school without crowd-control challenges, children are busy learning maths, from their enthusiastic maths teacher, who in the evening is looking up new ways to teach maths, not new ways to prevent being slaughtered by the children.

[Headofthehive55]

jennifer you must have taught in the school I taught at! The head does not want you to rock the boat - a boy kicked me once, really hurt and I was asked if I wanted to rethink if he had kicked me so they didn't need to take action!

We need to teach children that there are massive consequences for that sort of behaviour in the workplace. There you won't get chance after chance.

[Aeroflotgirl]

kawliga I played up in class, that I am not proud of and I have never repeated that to my DC, not to the e tent as teenagers do now. I saw the light when I left school with a few GCSES, I needed a kick up the backside, I went to college, retook, now I have a good BA (Hon and Msc, tgat I am proud of, and know how important it is to try your best at school. That is what I tell other young people I meet.

[Aeroflotgirl]

headofthehive that is discracefull, tge lack of support, I woukd have told him yiu will be going to the Police as it is assault. So it's not ok for kids to bully other kids, but it's ok for kids to bully staff 🤔

[Headofthehive55]

I agree kawliga. It's all the teachers fault see, that they won't sit down or even stay in the class. Or bring a pen. If only the teacher was better...

Meanwhile said teacher who is very good at the subject your child is struggling in, leaves and is replaced by temporary cover, who struggled with maths when they were at school....but is ever so good at keeping them in the classroom...

[Headofthehive55]

They pleaded for me to stay...that's both kids and smt. Like really. Thing is...I was good at school....I have qualifications....I walked straight out into a different job...they needed me a whole lot more than I needed them!

[kawliga]

There's a story in Farmer Boy (Laura Ingalls, anyone?) where the bad kids at Almanzo's school regularly beat up their teachers. School couldn't keep any teachers. One teacher even died from his injuries. In came the new school teacher, but rather than be beaten up, he bull-whipped the boys till they bled and their clothes were in tatters. The boys left the school and didn't cause him any more trouble.

Not sure where I'm going with that. I think I'm trying to say, I would have hoped we had moved on from the 19th century. Teachers and pupils should not be at war, fighting for dominance in the classroom, just without whips this time. It's more psychological warfare. Children play tricks on teacher, and teacher is told to learn some battle strategies to 'earn' their 'respect'.

It worries me that some stories being told by teachers on this thread are triumphalist stories of how they bested the children in some epic battle for power in the classroom. 'I showed those children who's boss with my calm and steely demeanor, they don't give me any trouble now'.

School isn't supposed to be like this

[pieceofpurplesky]

The respect thing is a nightmare. So many children think a teacher should earn their respect. That comes from home. There seems to be an odd culture of 'how naughty was i'.
How many of you fellow teachers have sat at parents evening and had the following conversation:
Me 'little Johnny really needs to be consistent in his effort'
Parent 'ah he's like me. I was rubbish at school. Always in trouble' etc etc

[kawliga]

Friend of mine, a headmaster, had to go to magistrate's court, took the whole day and then the case was postponed so he had to await spending another day in court. He was sued for confiscating a shoe, which the child had hurled at the teacher. Get it - the child tried to hurt the class teacher by throwing a shoe at her, and the parents' response was to sue the headmaster.

I didn't get to discover what he was sued for. I'm guessing 'confiscating a shoe' is not a lawsuit, so maybe it was something like putting the child in danger by making him walk with only one shoe all day.

[noblegiraffe]

People talking about Union action about behaviour reminded me that on my PGCE in a bloody awful school where the talk of the staffroom was 'who has been assaulted this week?' there was one kid in particular who kept assaulting teachers and had assaulted the same teacher more than once so the Union of that teacher voted to refuse to teach the kid, because the head was useless and wouldn't expel him.

Said student, if he had a lesson with a teacher who was in that union, had to go to reception for that lesson instead. Eventually the parents removed him from the school.

Why the unions didn't do anything about all the other assaults I've no idea.

[CodyKing]

That is what I tell other young people I meet

Can you pop by and tell the kids in my DC classes then? Decent parens give their children this message - it's a pity they are out numbered by unruly kids who expect instant rewards for just behaving for an hour

Children need to learn to respect themselves and view their own conduct as self respect - this would lead to respecting the teacher

[Headofthehive55]

It is very much a battle. One which most people pretend isn't happening.

[Headofthehive55]

I was made to feel the kicking incident was my fault. I did mention reporting the assault but the conversation was steered towards appraisals and My ability to control that class in an attempt to prevent me doing so.

i really don't think they thought i would leave!

[kawliga]

I do think 'managing' the teacher e.g. telling you to be a better teacher if you don't want children to kick you, is easier for the school than 'managing' the child especially if the child has fighty parents. Not saying schools do it deliberately, but it's just easier and so it tends to go that way.

Just think, there is no fallout in telling you to be a better teacher - you will not wage war because you have been asked to improve as a teacher. But trying to discipline the child could escalate badly.

[Aeroflotgirl]

Oh god notQuite I am so sorry that your early experience of teaching was marred by this. I am definitely a supportive parent, and totally support the teachers in disciplining my child, I use their techniques at home and it's working. Ds is only 4 and in school attached nursery, one day teacher got me aside and told me that ds had been hitting other children tgat they had him in time out and apologise to the children. I thanked her, I apologised on ds behalf, I had ds with me, and told him in front of teacher, that I never wanted to see this type of behaviour again, it made me sad.

[Aeroflotgirl]

Behaviour stopped, he is wonderful at nursery, no incidents like this again.

[Aeroflotgirl]

Oh, and I did not give him the treat I promised, we went straight home.

[MissMargie]

I don't get that these animals children need controlled. The teachers shouldn't need to control.

Again I blame free education, people don't value it. Offer it to a country where education is poor or controlled by bribery or has to be paid for. They would be overjoyed, as would the pupils.

I didn't realize as a teenager that people's taxes were paying for education, I thought it was something that the Gov was obliged to provide. And they were forcing me to go. I wasn't horrible but wasn't particularly motivated (sadly - regret that now). Perhaps some education about this might discourage some DCs, their taxes will be wasted on the same disrupted education when they leave school and have paid work.

Welfare state to blame again imv. Encourages this attitude of entitlement.

[Froginapan]

Sued for confiscating a shoe a child threw and the parents won?!

What was the magistrate thinking?

[madmomma]

I worked in a secondary school (good with outstanding features) for years before I had my youngest. The abuse that the teachers had to take day in day out was appalling. Being called cunts, hit, sworn at, bullied, mocked... No support from management and kids who had physically assaulted staff weren't excluded. So a man who had been punched by a student on the friday would have to teach the little shit on the monday. The balance of power has swung way, way too far towards the children, and it's not doing anyone any good.

[madmomma]

Absolutely kawilga. It's cowardly, and it creates monsters.

[madmomma]

Oh yes Jennifer re the marsbar thing. The 'advanced skills' teachers in our school, basically gave out sweets every five minutes to keep the naughty kids from hurling objects. Really advanced, that. The time they actually did decent teaching was funnily enough when they got the top sets (which was 99% of the time. When my little ones are at secondary age I will be very wary of sending them to secondary school at all. God knows what the alternative is, but I'm not sending them somewhere where they're surrounded by appalling behaviour going unchallenged.

[TheNewStatesman]

"I think what New Statesman meant by maths not being "fun" is that while it can definitely be rewarding and enjoyable, it isn't "fun" in the sense that most children think of "fun". "

That is exactly what I meant.

"There are plenty of ways to learn maths, including on nature walks, iPads, collage making (a really great way to learn maths) cooking, crocheting, playing - and a much longer list. The teaching methods and opportunities are almost endless and flexible - unfortunately the current system allows for little creative license."

Sensitive parents and teachers do indeed try to "bring maths into" everyday activities, such as (say) counting out pieces of macaroni as you glue them onto a collage when you are playing with your 5yo, or taking the opportunity to do some backwards-counting as you hop over logs on a nature walk etc. etc..

There is absolutely no way you could teach an entire maths syllabus like this, however, not least because the intensity of practice is so low.

For example: when I am doing baking with my daughter, we take a bit of time to look at the numbers in the recipe and say what they are, learn about concepts like "weigh" and "measure," review grams and milliliters, look at the "1/2" symbol in "1/2 liter" and talk about what it means etc. etc. All very nice, and a helpful supplement to proper maths teaching.

But over the course of an hour of activity, that might add up to perhaps a couple of minutes of maths, in total. Maths requires huge amounts of practice in order to get quick and fluent.