.. to think that "I fear for my sons" and ..

[BertrandRussell]

"I feel sorry for my sons" are just new ways of saying "I hate feminists"?

The best response to such comments, which I have actually used on a couple of occasions is, "well I am proud and happy for my son because he is a feminist too, in a safe and equal society everyone benefits"

I don't think anyone is going to refute that in those (and countless others) instances women are more vulnerable than men.

It's just that it's possible to be worried about our sons and what world they're growing up in, and about the gender-specific challenges they will face as men whilst simultaneously being worried about our daughters and the challenges they will face as women. The two are not mutually exclusive.

I think denying that boys and men face any difficulties because of their gender is sexist and goes against the fundamental principles of feminism. The patriarchy is no good for either sex.

Maryz

You've summed up my feeling exactly.

To do otherwise is massively letting down our daughters, infaniltizing them and thus perpetuating the belief that they are somehow lesser beings

That is a good way of putting it as I was reading A11TheSmallTh1ngs post and question why females are always more vulnerable than boys.

Could only assume being female was being equated with being weak and always needed protection even from own actions.

They are times my DD are more vulnerable than my DS but times when the opposite is true.

YANBU, there is nothing one has to fear especially for boys in this patriarchal world we live in.

Yeah, it is a rather bleak world men have created for themselves, but please, your son not being "allowed" to cry in public is no reason to "fear" for him. Reason to be a tad bit annoyed about gender stereotypes, perhaps.

I sometimes think (some) sons are loved more by (some of) their mothers. Perhaps especially valued by fathers too? Not as adorable/pretty creatures but as men in the making. I'm thinking of the cooked breakfast thread. And of headlines like this.

www.theguardian.com/money/2016/jun/03/boys-get-more-pocket-money-than-girls-halifax-survey-finds

I can't work out if the poster victim-blaming Maryz's son is deliberately trying to prove the point of the people saying "I fear for my sons"...? And while I agree RL =/= mumsnet, the fact that he was given a warning by the school while the girl was given counselling shows those kinds of unfair attitudes abound IRL too.

What whiteDragon said, word for word.

Saying that girls are always vulnerable and need protecting from themselves, while boys behaving exactly the same way are always at fault is pure patriarchy.

whiteDragon, to answer your question about why females are more vulnerable:

• Why do women as a group earn less than men? (why do we still have a massive pay gap)?
• Why are most victims of domestic violence women?
• Why are most victims of sexual violence women?
• Why are most single parents women?
• Why are most poor people women?
• Why are most low-earners in insecure jobs women?

Nobody is denying that men and boys can be vulnerable. But as a whole the odds are stacked massively against women. We still live in a shit society where women are afraid to go out at night, where women are afraid to travel alone, where women do most of unpaid domestic labour, and where women are routinely placed in dependent positions.

My brother never had to put up with random creeps groping him in the streets and on public transport when he was a teenager. I did.

So let us not pretend that there is equality or, even more ridiculous, that women are advantaged.

Sorry but if we're blaming a teenage boy for not responding to an unsolicited sext with concern for the vulnerability of the sender then we truly have swallowed some Kool Aid.

I think it's a way of denying the structural realities of inequality, as autumn has eloquently stated, above.

I don't think any feminist believes that men don't occasionally face upsetting, difficult situations in which they are sometimes victimised. That, unfortunately, is just a reality of life for all adults. The difference is that society isn't set up in such a way that they are pretty much unable to escape confronting those situations on a frequent basis, because they are structurally built into the status quo.

And yes, the burden of being male AND female in an unequal society should be confronting and dealing with that inequality, and that is something that both sexes need to be engaged with - and that does mean a degree of acknowledging privilege wherever it exists, and a need to be aware that one's own experience may not be universal.

As always on Mumsnet, the denunciatory language of fear, outrage, and anger is working overtime in the original statement.

Oh this is so depressing. I want my sons to be happy and as a mum I will express concern about them when I have to/want to, and if you can't hack that then that's your fucking problem. Nothing to do with being an anti feminist.

Deluded fools.

VestalVirgin Thu 09-Jun-16 11:23:39

"YANBU, there is nothing one has to fear especially for boys in this patriarchal world we live in. "

Not even if they are black sons living in certain parts of the US? Or even in certain parts of the UK, where black men are far more likely to be suspected of crimes they did not commit and far more likely of being treated roughly by the police whilst being taken into custody?

There is also the fact that boys and young men of any colour, however law abiding, are more likely to be the target of male violence.

I have a 16yo son. He is gentle and law-abiding (and has great respect for female equality). He has already been threatened with violence repeatedly, and once knocked down and repeatedly kicked in the head whilst lying on the ground. His crime? He walked through one of the local streets and that was seen as a provocation by the lads who consider themselves as owning that street.

Has also been attacked at school- again, not because he had actually done anything (even the aggressor admitted this later), but because he happened to be standing by. He is tall and slim and of quite an athletic build and that in itself seems to provoke violence; it's as if other boys feel they have to measure themselves against him.

Has his sister, who also walks out unaccompanied in the local area, ever been threatened with violence? Not once.

Of course women fear rape and I would never want to minimise that risk. But that doesn't mean I am not allowed to express my concern at the risk of my son having his head kicked to a pulp.

Should add that though ds was knocked down in broad day light and has been told it will happen again. The police were called but made it clear that he would be taking a big risk by pushing charges; ds, not surprisingly, decided against it. We do not live in some horrible slum, but in a fairly ordinary suburb.

YANBU on forums, its a new way people have of presenting their 'women are being unreasonable, what about the poor men' stance.
You see it all the time here.

Its sad and divisive, but they cant see that. Feminism benefits everyone.

OohMavis Thu 09-Jun-16 11:06:28

"It's just that it's possible to be worried about our sons and what world they're growing up in, and about the gender-specific challenges they will face as men whilst simultaneously being worried about our daughters and the challenges they will face as women. The two are not mutually exclusive. "

This puts it better than I can do. Worrying about the gender specific violence which threatens my son on a daily basis does not mean that I cannot recognise the multiple other areas where my daughter (or I myself) are either at risk or disadvantaged.

Sorry but if we're blaming a teenage boy for not responding to an unsolicited sext with concern for the vulnerability of the sender then we truly have swallowed some Kool Aid

Agree 100%

And I do actually agree with the OP that the phrase quoted is often used in an anti-feminist way and that is not something anyone should have any sympathy with.

Nobody is denying that men and boys can be vulnerable

FFS AutumnMadness that poster was denying that boys can every be more vulnerable than girls.

Hence me pointing out that wasn't always true .

As a woman I am very aware of issue I face in our current society and as a Mother of girls have made a point about finding and understanding what my daughter may encounter that I didn't.

I have no idea why you assume I must be so naive or stupid to be that you need to list a few to me. I think that say more about your attitude to your fellow females than anything I've posted.

God this is depressing.

Yes females as a group have a harder time.

That doesn't mean parents should not worry about the things that impact their sons.

Reading about blaming a boy for recieved for a text is very very depressing.

And I do actually agree with the OP that the phrase quoted is often used in an anti-feminist way and that is not something anyone should have any sympathy with

True but SilverBirchWithout suggests a nice come back there.