.. to think that "I fear for my sons" and ..

[BertrandRussell]

"I feel sorry for my sons" are just new ways of saying "I hate feminists"?

"Feminism benefits everyone"

Unless you fear for your sons, in which case internalised misogyny makes your perspective unworthy of concern.

YABU.

I fear for my sons.

No doubt if I had daughters, I would fear for them too.

I do fear for them.

They grow up in a violent world were teenage boys are often victims of violent crime. Body image issues are now almost as bad for boys as they have always been for girls. The pornification of society harms boys as well as girls.

Worrying about the boys does not mean dismissing girls at all. Feminism is not harming boys, on the contrary, in case that is what you meant.

I am wondering why exactly men are not allowed to fear for the gender-specific violence which nobody can deny they are at risk from.

Is it because they are also men so they are somehow collectively responsible?

My ds is responsible for being knocked down and kicked in the head because he has the same genital outfit as the boys who take it in turn to kick?

Maryz's ds is responsible for some girl deciding to sext him, because he has the same genital outfit as other boys elsewhere who send sexual images to young girls- which of course is a bad thing to do...?

Its a phrase trotted out on every thread about women. Why?

If people are so concerned about their sons then why dont we see threads started by them about male violence towards men?
Why arent men raising money for male rape crisis, or mens shelters?

Maybe you are right, Elsie, maybe one ought to do something. My problem is that I don't quite know what.

What kind of shelter would you raise to prevent teenage boys from beating up other teenage boys at school, or on the street, when even the police are advising against involvement, and when the parents of the perpetrators actively encourage their behaviour because "boys fighting" (= your son and his gang beating my son up) is seen as a normal and healthy thing? When even police are likely to think of it as a mutual exercise of "boys getting into a fight" rather than one person being assaulted? Which is why avoiding going out in the dark or sticking to public places is no protection for him: passers-by will just assume it's a case of "boys fighting".

I am very happy to advocate for women's shelters and female rape crisis centres: I do not want any resources or attention taken away from that.

And of course this danger is in no way caused by feminism; quite to the contrary; it is caused by the identical thinking that underlies the patriarchy.

I just felt a bit offended by a previous poster's blithe assumption that no men can possibly be at risk in our patriarchy. Imo patriarchy spells ANTI-PEOPLE.

How depressing.

After 41 years of:

actually living as a feminist, breaking boundaries & proving the worth of a woman 'in a man's job' (not just paying lip service to it in an Internet forum);

having a husband that did more than a fair share of the 'wife work' as well as also having a full time job himself;

Bringing my boys up to respect all people, and to have emotional intelligence & understand the shades of grey in life;

Imagine my surprise to now realise that I am actually a misogynist - I just didn't know it.

Thank goodness some anonymous ranters with a bee in their bonnet have shown me what a 'real' feminist is after all this time of me doing it wrong.

A 'real' feminist apparently uses words, not action;
A 'real' feminist blames all men for everything, whilst holding a woman as completely innocent in all circumstances and will say "we believe you" to a woman, whilst saying "there must be a backstory" to a man.

If people are so concerned about their sons then why dont we see threads started by them about male violence towards men?
Why arent men raising money for male rape crisis, or mens shelters?

Well personally I dorm post about my fears for either of my children on mn. I don't really start any threads on mn.

Why don't I raise money? Because between work and looking after my kids, I choose to prioritise the hospice that cared for my aunt.

Just because you don't post on mn or fundraiser, doesn't mean you can't be concerned.

I don't think bertrand was condemning mothers of sons for caring about them! No-one in their right mind would think that!

I thought she was condemning the use of that phrase in a certain context, where there is an attitude of answering any feminist thread with 'I'm worried for my sons' (implicitly: because of all the angry women trying to change the world who are insisting that they acknowledge that there are structural inequalities and situations of privilege).

I am wondering why exactly men are not allowed to fear for the gender-specific violence which nobody can deny they are at risk from.

Because men, as a class, are the cause of male violence, which they are at risk from.

Of course men can fear male violence, but that kind of reminds me of Michael Moore's Stupid White Men, where he announces that he fears white men and prefers to not have anything to do with them.

Also, you seem to be missing the point of this thread. This isn't about people saying "Patriarchy is so shit, I fear my sons will be beaten up by violent men", it's about antifeminists who for some reason think that feminism is to blame for any problem their sons face.

I have heard that phrase said so many times along with 'it's gone too far the other way in favour of the girls'. It makes me so angry!! Some people will never be content unless boys are put in first place all the time and God forbid they have to share that position with girls! YANBU OP.

A lot of people are deliberately misunderstanding the thread and posting irrelevant or plain goady comments.
I've seen that used as a MRA tactic elsewhere.

It heightens the sense of frustration for people reading those comments.
Its also a comment in itself; that women can say nothing, propose or discuss nothing, and that men will always be the protaganists of debate, and the focus of any discussion.

We end up talking about men even when we try to talk about women, because thats the way some men want it.

I have heard that phrase said so many times along with 'it's gone too far the other way in favour of the girls'.

The hey are two completely different sentences with two different meanings.

Many of us can worry about our sons, without thinking it's gone too far in favour of girls.

I have both a boy and a girl and have different concerns for both.

*I am wondering why exactly men are not allowed to fear for the gender-specific violence which nobody can deny they are at risk from.

Because men, as a class, are the cause of male violence, which they are at risk from.*

Perhaps I'm thick but I just don't understand this. So, if I'm a man I'm not allowed to fear violence from other men because I belong to the same class? Rubbish.

We end up talking about men even when we try to talk about women, because thats the way some men want it.

How exactly can we discuss "I fear for my sons" without mentioning males?

I don't think bertrand was condemning mothers of sons for caring about them
I thought she was condemning the use of that phrase in a certain context

Well therein lies the problem with this thread shovetheholly.

Despite being a very prevalent poster on MN, Betrand chose to make an ambiguous & vague post with no clarification as to what she actually meant.
Everyone's interpretation of, and usage of, that phrase is subjective.

Hence, many people in this thread being rightly offended that they're wrongly and unfairly being labelled misogynists for daring to be worried about their sons.

But the thread was posted about 'men' (or boys) so of course we are talking about them
Well, yes, but the OP was also about how feminism is blamed for the situation of men and how those phrases are used to shut down and blame feminists.

So there were two parts to the OP and yet the thread seems much more swayed to discussing the first part rather than the latter.

That is quite a common MRA tactic. If there's a discussion that could be balanced between competing concerns, they deliberately tilt it to 'what about the men/boys?'

I'd assume most posters on this thread aren't MRAs but it's definitely a recognisable tactic that they use.

Well, yes, but the OP was also about how feminism is blamed for the situation of men and how those phrases are used to shut down and blame feminists.

No she wasn't, she mentioned no context at all.

^A lot of people are deliberately misunderstanding the thread and posting irrelevant or plain goady comments.
I've seen that used as a MRA tactic elsewhere.^

I too missed the memo that detailed the supposed 'actual' point of this thread.

*AIBU to think that "I fear for my sons" and "I feel sorry for my sons" are just new ways of saying "I hate feminists"?
*
Apart from commenting on her grammar & confirming she has a son, there was no further input from the OP.

So most people answered her honestly:

No it's fucking not saying "I hate feminists".

"I feel sorry for my sons" are just new ways of saying "I hate feminists"?

Thats the context right there.
You saying its not there doens't make it go away.

There is a problem with MRA's and apologists derailing threads. We are bored of them and their stale tactics.

BertrandRussell can you please come back to the thread and clarify what you mean and in what context.