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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

.. to think that "I fear for my sons" and ..

831 replies

BertrandRussell · 09/06/2016 07:54

"I feel sorry for my sons" are just new ways of saying "I hate feminists"?

OP posts:
bumbleymummy · 11/06/2016 16:02

"But you said your teenage child would be equally safe or unsafe alone in a train compartment with a man or a woman. I don't think you can think both things, can you?"

It really depends on the individual though. The man could be perfectly normal and not aggressive at all and the woman could have a history of violently attacking people. You can't just assume that one is safer than the other because of their sex.

whiteDragon · 11/06/2016 16:03

Then there was massive astonishment when posters who don't go to that board hadn't a clue what the context was.

I'd be one of those.

Why wasn't it addressed on that thread or very least that board rather than get pissy at the rest of us?

BertrandRussell · 11/06/2016 16:05

Because sometimes "all men" and "all women" are a particular thing. All women are potential shoplifters. There are very few crimes that only one sex can commit- in fact I can only think of rape. All men are-sorry- potential rapists. For the reasons that I have explained several times.

OP posts:
GraysAnalogy · 11/06/2016 16:05

I also didn't say they were equally safe. I said I'd seat them in either

BertrandRussell · 11/06/2016 16:07

Grays- because the University would have looked bloody silly talking about the underrepresentaion of men in secretarial and support roles while ignoring their massive overrepresentatiom in management and academic roles.

OP posts:
BertrandRussell · 11/06/2016 16:10

"I also didn't say they were equally safe. I said I'd seat them in either"

That sounds as if you would be prepared to put your child in a position of more risk for the sake of principle. I'm sure that's not what you mean...

OP posts:
derxa · 11/06/2016 16:11

To my knowledge I know 2 farmers who have hit their wives. These men are dodgy in all other areas of their lives. They are not 'good' people. I know not to do business with them. It's common sense. I don't extrapolate from that that all farmers are potential wife beaters or dodgy business men.

MangoMoon · 11/06/2016 16:12

So is the consensus of this thread, with the exception of a few misandrist feminists, that men and women are equally likely to commit sexual assault, sexual harassment and violent crime?

The only people who have come close to suggesting this are the posters who are determined to put words into other's mouths.

bumbleymummy · 11/06/2016 16:13

But Bert, you can't just assume that the woman is 'safer' than the man. It would depend on the situation - you would have to judge the individual.

GraysAnalogy · 11/06/2016 16:13

They could have cut that one focus point then, rather than bowing to pressures exerted by people thinking men having a day to highlight their issues is an affront to womenkind.

It's funny though, you'd think people would be happy that men wanted to be represented in roles that people have deemed gendered and thus 'women's work'.

branofthemist · 11/06/2016 16:14

So is the consensus of this thread, with the exception of a few misandrist feminists, that men and women are equally likely to commit sexual assault, sexual harassment and violent crime?

For the love of God....no one has said that. And we have all disputed you saying it again and again.

Gendered roles I have concerns about for my DS and I have them for my DDs though they are slightly different concerns.

think I'd be a shit mother to my son if I only cared about my DDs and threats to them.

Couldn't agree more with this.

This whole thread is ridiculous. Apparently you can't worry about your son because women (in general) face bigger issues. So you don't appear to be anti feminist, you have to not give a shit about your own child.

GraysAnalogy · 11/06/2016 16:15

That sounds as if you would be prepared to put your child in a position of more risk for the sake of principle. I'm sure that's not what you mean...

Wow. I'm going to ignore that.

You haven't answered my question btw.

Would you avoid the black man?

BertrandRussell · 11/06/2016 16:18

Yes, I think a conference discussing men's issues would have been a good thing. That's why I said it shouldn't have been cancelled. But I think it needs a lot of thought and planning. Complaining about not being represented in low status low pay jobs wouldn't have presented the right image.

OP posts:
MangoMoon · 11/06/2016 16:19

Grays I asked something similar earlier. I'm not sure where Bert is trying to go with this tangent.

Bumbley, it is a recurring theme on this thread that certain posters are making deliberately ambiguous statements & posing convoluted hypothetical scenarios.

I think that the outcome required is for us all to be slowly led by the nose by the very clever armchair 'feminists' to the 'realisation' that we're all misogynistic haterz of feminists and are MRA sympathisers & want the menz carry on ruling the world.

Of course, I could be wrong.....

MangoMoon · 11/06/2016 16:21

Potential means nothing.

Confused But what about the potential rapist thing?
BertrandRussell · 11/06/2016 16:21

why are you going to ignore it? That's how it reads!

No I wouldn't have avoided the black man. Because gun crime does not take place between random strangers on trains. Sexual abuse and theft does.

OP posts:
MangoMoon · 11/06/2016 16:27

As does knife crime Bertrand.

ThisPanCan · 11/06/2016 16:28

Crumbs, this is an example where MN radfems specific arguments appear to expire on contact with air.

""I feel sorry for my sons" are just new ways of saying "I hate feminists"?

Nope, but let's not stop you thinking that.

Shakey15000 · 11/06/2016 16:29

Have ploughed through the thread.

YABU.

GraysAnalogy · 11/06/2016 16:29

I didn't say you were on a train :)

Okay then, I'll answer it. Yes I am prepared to put my child at risk. Because there is risk in everyday life and that's just how we have to live, knowing there's risks but not letting them dictate our life. You're using this risk factor as an excuse for misandry.

whiteDragon · 11/06/2016 16:39

There are two compartments. One has a man sitting quietly in it.. One has a woman sitting quietly in it. They are both of equal height and weight. Which compartment would you prefer your teenage child to get into?

Not sure.

I've only once had a problem with trains - started on a platform - I'm not sure how much a risk I actually was but I was freaked - deserted platform two guys not being nasty but persistent offering a drink and getting in my space.

I was relived when two women came down the steps - they took one look and went as far down the really long platform as they could get - which was quite far.

It was a middle aged guy who turned up on the platform that clocked I was uncomfortable and came and started a conversation with all of us and when I walked a few carriage to a busy carriage and found the two men had followed and sat opposite he followed along and sat with us. Subtly made sure I was being met and when he had to get off first he rushed off which I thought odd then saw him talking to the guard who then hung around a bit more than usual.

I don't know how much that experience is colouring my perception but talking to other people they aren't surprised it was a guy or in friends example a mixed group or group of men who step in - least likely is a lone female.

So they may well be safe in a carriage with a lone man if someone else come on and gives them hassle but again depends on the man involved.

It's that pesky context again.

DH had one or two rare problems on trains as well - we've done a lot of differing journeys - surrounding people looking for fights rather than fearing sexual harassment. That's not a problem I've ever had.

Jasonandyawegunorts · 11/06/2016 16:45

whiteDragon
The problem with this story is that it can be picked apart like this:

What did that man think he was doing, Assuming You, a woman, needed help in the situation typical bloke behaviour. He shoudl have stepped back and minded his own business and remembered that all men could be rapists!

MangoMoon · 11/06/2016 16:52

Jason Grin
And of course he was forcing his maleness on her - assuming her to be a poor weak woman in need of saving.
Fucking men, making assumptions and assuming that all women require saving...

Jasonandyawegunorts · 11/06/2016 16:55

It's the Knight in shining armour mentality that gets me. He also forced himself knowingly into the same train carriage as her, Doesn't he understand the statistics?

whiteDragon · 11/06/2016 16:59

At the time I was bloody grateful - Jason.

It isn't a story it actually happen to me in my 20's when I was travelling to see DH a lot as our careers meant we were if different cities and we were splitting the travel and had to wait till after work Friday to start travelling - though don't doubt it will be called a lie by some posters.

He was very subtle the interceding guy - I doubt I'd have the social skills he displayed even now - asked about delayed train complained a bit then asked if we were travelling together- and the guys weren't British so there may have been some cultural clash rather than any intent to cause discomfort I did have the little voice unconscious voice warning me while at same time listing reasons think I was over reacting.

Generally though I've always felt safer on trains than busses.

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