AIBU to think the referendum is a farce...

[Homeriliad]

... and not to vote?

I support remain but I've always been opposed to an EU referendum due to the complex economic arguments involved. But even I didn't expect it turn into a Tory leadership campaign with lies being flung on both sides.

I'm angry that the Tory party (Boris) are using the British economy as a pawn in their power games; I'm fed up with the terrible quality of debate and lack of access to facts.

Not exactly Just5 though yes there are pockets of deprivation and there's a lot of rural land around here too, which is attractive to eastern European workers because they're the jobs nobody else wants. It's a huge mix really, though Nigel Farage did use my city as an 'example' of all that is wrong with integration. Ironically though, the city electorate itself is not big on UKIP but the outlying rural communities are.

Fwiw I'm also quite proud of how my city's many communities rub along together. It's a history that goes back decades to Italian, Hungarian and Polish immigrants. Back then people were more welcoming. So my dad tells me anyway!

Well yes Lurking I see your point but that doesn't mean that perpetual referendums is the answer, otherwise why do we bother voting every few years? Incidentally, hundreds of thousands were also ignored and silenced when this Conservative government led us to air strikes in Syria

Apologies - I didn't conclude my rant ! I meant to finish by saying that against such a backdrop, it's hardly surprising we no longer trust our leaders to make decisions anymore. It's the legacy that will keep on giving and giving.

Don't get me started about Syria. I emailed my local MP to note my opposition and received a 6-page letter (including an excerpt from Hansard) on much nicer paper than official forms are printed. It was one of the most elaborate "FUCK YOU"s I have every received.

I personally think a successful Leave campaign, where we stay in Europe, will create massive problems in this country. I also suspect a successful Brexit campaign will have issues to deal with, but at least they followed their heart, whereas Cameron and Leave campaign as far as I can see mainly follow their wallets.

I have read this several times, and feel confused.

Lurking That's where all our millions are going - it's not being haemorrhaged out to the EU as the leave campaign will have us believe, but being spent on elaborate House of Commons Fuck Yous!

Do vote.

My advice is to remain in the EU but whatever your views vote. I think it's a great pity if people choose not to vote. One of the nice things about the remain camp is that for once Thatcherites like I am and Corbynistas can be as one - united that we know it is better for everyone if we stay in.

Please vote - you don't vote and you and your family are lumbered with whatever the outcome and you did nothing to try to prevent it. Even if it doesn't go the way you voted, you tried. Your vote is as important as any of the Tory arse wipes on either side.
PS I'm for Remain but I want you to vote how you see fit as long as you vote.

I have read this several times, and feel confused

Understandably

I'm for Brexit.. I think we owe it to future generations to vote. When they find themselves living in a province of a federal dictatorship, doing what they're told by an unelected, unaccountable cabal of predatory, career politicians, they'll doubtless wonder how we let it happen.

Ah the classic Brexit lies.....

Do we also owe it to the future and current generations to completely screw over our economy and leave them jobless and futureless? That's what a vote for Brexit is - economic disaster whilst covering it up with a farragelike cloud of faux patriotic lies and guff.

Yeah, it's funny I don't feel like I'm already living in a 'province of federal dictatorship' despite having been an EU member for all this time!

Jobless, hopeless futureless, a disaster of a future if we get out!! Yet I'm the one lying?

Nationalism is just the other side of xenophobia. So that immediately makes me question the motivation of people who want to leave.

But OP you are being unreasonable not to vote. Think how you will feel on June 24th. If either decision leaves you feeling even slightly disappointed or anxious then vote. You might be able to change it.

I agree with your gloomy picture olivia. I can't see the EU ending well. Best out now imo.

1. We elect our government democratically to make tough decisions on our behalf. We cannot keep deferring to referendum every time the decision making gets particularly tough.

^^ The irony of this remark.
How many referendums have you voted in op? Sounds like where you live, they happen on a regular basis?

People who want to remain have a patchy understanding/respect of democracy, this is - this referendum is democracy in progress.

sorry, not OP Little Lion

So that immediately makes me question the motivation of people who want to leave
Really?

well my family couldn't be more European, we have so many nationalities in it! Most of want to LEAVE.

Yes Olivia, I too want to pass onto my DC a democratic UK, where their future vote will count.

I don't think any of us should be voting. I have researched and I'm pretty intelligent and even I can see it's all a load of bollocks. No one really knows what would happen either way and it's all bullshit propaganda. Both sides are telling us their way is the only way to help the poor/sick/disabled/nhs/workers etc etc.

The vast majority of us voting are not qualified to understand, evaluate and predict what our vote will mean. The information we are being given is confusing and contradictory. We shouldn't be given this choice in my opinion.

I will vote using the information I have to make the best choice as far as I can see but I'm not happy about it.

I know it's democracy in action but I would rather they left big decisions like this to themselves but let us vote to change the voting system so it's actually fair. Where I live my vote means fuck all. I always cast it and it never matters as the same MP gets in year after year. Let me vote to change THAT farce please.

cheeze you do understand that ther EU is also an organic growing thing too don't you?

Ie, the EU is a new idea being foisted on us all and they dont know how it will turn out either.

None of them predicted Syria crisis and its impact, or Greece etc or the Spectre of Turkeys ascension.

No we don't know exactly what will happen if we leave, but similarly we don't know what will happen if we stay in an ogranistion changed entirely from its birth.

What we can do is look at ourselves and our history and wonder if we can go it alone. I have done this and I think we can go it alone.
On the other hand I have no idea what else this EU is going to morph into.

Cheeze they are looking into it. You can also lobby your MP, get other folk together, march, riot, do what you want and who knows, you may get listened too.

We cant do anything about laws we dont like in Brussles. They. Do. Not. Care.About.The.Uk.

The pollsters have NFI, which means it's really important to go and vote if you actually care one way or the other, even if only on instinct rather than reason.

Interestingly, though, when asked why they were voting the way they were, voters in ethnically diverse communities were more likely to be voting Remain, and those in very white ghettos were more likely to be voting Leave and to cite immigration for doing so.

My vote is needed to counter the total asshats.

Amen!

Even the Dalai Lama recognises that there are serious issues here that need understanding.

He was misquoted by the Brexiteers who woefully misunderstood the point he was making about occupied territory. He has since disavowed the comments attributed to him.

I don't think there is a chance in hell we will ever actually leave the EU even if the vote is to leave.