To ask how Brexit would affect immigration?

[Bearbehind]

It scares me that, as a nation, we have to vote in the EU referendum as there doesn't seem to be any impartial informative advice on which to base a decision.

I think I've made my mind up based on a number of factors but, as far as I can see, the question of immigration will be make or break for many people.

I'm not sure leaving the EU will result in us being able to control immigration much better than we do now but I'm the first to admit I know very little about it.

Will it really change much?

I was listening to some elderly Brexiters at the weekend, including my own grandfather.

The common theme among them is they don't understand what the EU is, or what they're voting for, and they're completely unaware that the government already controls non-EU migration.

The misinformation campaign has clearly had some success.

The common theme among them is they don't understand what the EU is, or what they're voting for, and they're completely unaware that the government already controls non-EU migration.

There are are some that are voting remain that have missed construed and incorrect ideas on issues and as to how it works too.

Tbf it isn't a 'side' thing.

It would equalise the system for immigration so that everyone would go through the same process, whatever continent they were from. I see no reason why we have to prioritise those who happen to be in the EU.

So no real difference then.

So no real difference then.

A huge difference.

TheCorbynmiteManouver Thu 09-Jun-16 12:25:21

A percentage of the population is going to be horrid. Votes for remain and leave will include some of these voters. Not sure what your rationale is.

UK is one of the most tolerant inclusive societies on this planet. The irnoy is that mass immigration we cannot control is turning the population the other way, if anything, a grip on this madness will ease any tensions.

Yes a HUGE difference!

Huge difference?
I'm afraid your pious hopes don't stand the test of simple logic.

We are incapable of controlling immigration from outside the EU. It's now running at more than 50% of the total.

So if the EU comes under the same failed restrictions as non-EU, we will be equally unsuccessful at stopping them.

And this is course ignores the fact that if we don't allow free movement with the EU we can't have a trade deal with them.

There's an interesting trail here..
Icarus > Canute > Brexit

I'm very curious as to the details of non-EU immigration to the UK. Does anyone have information on how this immigration is occurring? Is it mostly through the formal channels whereby non-EU immigrants are meeting the entry requirements, or semi-formal channels (over staying a visa but then applying through the regular channels to normalise their status) or illegally and never normalising their status? I'm sure it's a combination but I wonder how it breaks down exactly? I would have thought that the majority of non-EU immigration is achieved through the formal channels and that since the introduction of the minimum earning requirements non-EU immigration must be declining?

I'd like to know too. It appears that non EU immigration is actually increasing.

I found this article that gives an overview of non-EU migration. Very interesting, apparently by far the largest number of non-EU migrants are students. It does appear that the changes in rules concerning minimum income are having a large effect and it seems like the rules for student visas have been tightened as well. One quote from the report:

"The National Audit Office reported in March 2012 that 159,000 people could be subject to removal for overstaying or otherwise violating conditions of their stay. It is not known how many of these are students."

www.migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/britains-70-million-debate/4-migration-non-eu-nationals-effects-recent-policy-changes-net-migration

I'm sure it's a combination but I wonder how it breaks down exactly?

None of the statistics include visa overstayers, who make up by far the largest group of illegal immigrants in the UK.

wasonthelist - That's not a problem, or flip-flopping. People will vote leave (or stay) for a variety of reasons. Others may consider their reasons valid or otherwise according to their own view.

Well I think it is aproblem as you have mutually exclusive camps voting for leave, as mentioned above and what i have seen on social media, my own and in general posters comments online, even in gaming forums, about voting leave specifically to kick out and or stop people coming to the UK as its 'out of control, "we are full", "not looking after our own" coded racism etc etc.

Leaving and getting an EEA, free market deal wont make any difference to immigration, as well as free movement deals with the commonwealth will add more diversity and is completely counter to what leavers think they getting.

Turkey has a free trade agreement with the EU, but no free movement of people.

in fact Turkey is in a customs union with the EU that covers industrial goods only, not agriculture or services.

In fact Turkey, has now become a barrier to a massive migration crisis from Syria and other countries.

It has suddenly become a key player in spite of its failings on human rights and as such has been thrust into a key bargaining position, one which it threatens to stop if - we the EU don't play ball.

I think anyone voting Brexit with the idea it will lead to closed borders and immigration control, is very naive. If it were as simple as that then Cameron would declare it as simply as that, because he is well aware that immigration issues are foremost in most people's minds.

No-one knows whether in or out is better because no-one knows what we will be able to negotiate if out, but so no-one knows what will change if we remain in. The EU is, for example, looking at banning single use plastic bottles - this may be great, may be rubbish but we have no veto if we remain in. There are many other, larger issues, that could easily change if we remain.
Cameron and many establishment people favour in because they have 'won' in the current position, so change is more likely to damage them than help them. This is not true for the current 'losers'.
Most established business/people trust the status quo rather than embrace change. For example, when it became obvious music downloads were the future, did the established record companies develop paid for models such as itunes or spotify? No, they tred to prevent downloading and tried to stop people copying CDs onto computers, rather than providing a better service to people prepared to pay. The same with traditional publishers and books, hotels and airbnb, taxis and UBER - keep the rules where I am winning, not risk change where others may win. However, all these examples have led to the champions dying and the 'average Jo/anna' getting a better deal. IMO, the opposition to Brexit is the same.

Most established business/people trust the status quo rather than embrace change. For example, when it became obvious music downloads were the future, did the established record companies develop paid for models such as itunes or spotify? No, they tred to prevent downloading and tried to stop people copying CDs onto computers, rather than providing a better service to people prepared to pay.

Just like with brexit, those established business people saw a threat to their business and they were right. And it's not just the business people at the top who have been affected: the little people (musicians) have been shafted. So a pretty good analogy for brexit really ...

Mistigri Whilst their businesses suffered, the vast majority of the people in the world benefited - they were defending the status quo to benefit a selfish minority to continue to shaft the majority.
So agree, a good analogy

Carol there's no doubt that consumers have benefited, but at the cost of working conditions and wages in the industries concerned. Obviously you can't roll back technological progress, but the idea that people should embrace change without awareness of its consequences (or any attempt to mitigate them) is irresponsible.

Mistigri Live changes. We should move (and vote) for the benefit of the majority, which is Leave, not the established rich minority.

I have a good friend who runs a factory production line. He can't hire locals as much as he wants to, because they won't take the jobs (which are paid at more than minimum wage, but quite hard physical work and involve some cleaning). He's terrified by the idea of a BREXIT.

Just complete and utter bollocks. My friends daughter tried to get a job in a factory a couple of summers ago. She had 5 A grade A levels. She didn't get an interview even because they bus Lithuanians in every morning to work for peanuts. It's making our poor poorer and stagnating wages. There are Brits out there willing to take any job. Stop peddling your scare mingle ring propaganda.

How is it scaremongering to relate one person's opinion?

She had 5 A grade A levels. She didn't get an interview even because they bus Lithuanians in every morning to work for peanuts

Or maybe she didn't get an interview because the factory owners know that someone with 5 A grade A levels is not going to be staying long term so it's not worth their time training her up for her to leave in a few months.

Or maybe she didn't get an interview because the factory owners know that someone with 5 A grade A levels is not going to be staying long term so it's not worth their time training her up for her to leave in a few months

She was taking a year out. Regardless, stop trying to justify their actions. The original post I commented on stated that British workers are unwilling to take these types of jobs. This is simply untrue.

This was a rather large factory and packing station for an online retailer. There was local uproar at the time because no British people were getting a chance to work there. I believe that the company then made dispatchers for treating its employees apoloingly and paying below minimum wage which in reality is the only reason why companies are desperate for us to remain in the EU.