If your toddlers screech and scream in public

[JackandDiane]

In a cafe say, Non tantrum. Just doing it. Tell them to shut up please. It's fucking annoying.

I hope you are not including those with disabilities in the shouldn't be there group.

Actually I have plenty of gumption. And if someone is disruptive near me in a restaurant, I request of the management that either they or I be moved to a different location.

Also, not clear why you would post that my saying there are standards of public decorum makes me either a troll or a dick. Believe it or not, many of us do not lead our lives according to the lowest common denominator. Quite a few people believe in having consideration for others, even at some inconvenience to oneself.

Dear gf taxpayer, are you including disabled people or not

My 2.5 year old has taken to screaming lately. I take him out of the room if he starts in public. It is a truly vile noise.

Oh, I see - consideration for others. .. like, say, understanding that babies and small children can't always 'control themselves' to adult standards despite the best efforts of their parents? Like, say cutting people some slack once in a while because a moment of noise spoiling your ambiance isn't the end of the fucking world, and some parents won't have slept properly in a few days and just want to stop for a coffee, not realising that Queen Village needs complete silence even though it's only a fucking Costa.

I called you a troll because you're clearly a non-parent trying to piss off parents who are trying their best.

oh, sorry, should have read page two before posting

So consideration for people like you, but no consideration for people who aren't? Interesting...

I get you. You are one of those who think people with learning disabilities should be locked away from the normals. A bigot.

Consideration for others means not subverting others' enjoyment and not disturbing the peace. By sitting quietly eating our meal, my companion and I do nothing to detract from anyone else's enjoyment of their experience. Because conducting oneself quietly in a public place is the default norm. By contrast the family with the screeching child is producing a loud and unpleasant disruption to me and to all other diners or coffee-drinkers.

The distinction is actually pretty clear.

Re: "allowing" children to "shriek" in the park - "You have to be consistent with children and firmly tell them it is unacceptable at all times and be prepared to remove them from the situation."

No, you don't. That's called rigidity - bad for psychological health and wellbeing, social functioning and general learning and development. Children learn to adapt to different contexts if rules are consistently applied within those contexts. That's what we're wired for.

The village - that reminds me of reading the book "French children don't throw food" - the premise being that children are trained from an extremely early age how to be patient in restaurants and what's expected of them. It makes an awful lot of sense and the few parenting successes I've had have been from unwittingly following the methods in that book.

Oh OP, I really hope your NN is a reference that's gone well over my head because it looks to me like the MN equivalent of sharing a Facebook page with your partner

That aside, children do make unpleasant noises. It's annoying. But I for one don't expect parents to confine their families to their homes, parks and soft plays. And in any given situation, ignoring a child's poor behaviour may be the best move. There are some things my DD (2) will cooperate with me about but there are a couple of things that she does specifically to push buttons and see if she can get a rise. They're learning about boundaries at that age. If they don't get the reaction they expect they often stop. Giving them the expected reaction usually makes the behaviour more frequent and often makes them push the boundary harder.

Not that I'd be happy letting DD annoy people in public, admittedly. I've actually abandoned my shopping and left with DD before now. I'm a lone parent and could really have done with having some food in the fridge but I was getting so many horrendous looks because my child was being a noisy shit that DD could have toast for tea and I could do without. I'd tried everything on that shopping trip. On reflection, she wasn't actually doing anyone any harm and I should have just carried on.

Of course there had to be a 'story' about someone with disabilities being physical with strangers. Something that happens all the time. Not. So predictable.

I am very sympathetic to mums and dads who are on their own with more than one child, as if one child kicks off it isn't easy to take them outside to calm down as they have the other(s) to look after as well. I'd be a bit about a parent with only one child making no effort to minimise noise disturbance to other diners.

"On reflection, she wasn't actually doing anyone any harm and I should have just carried on."

That's where we disagree. I think some people become desensitized to the whining and shrieking and don't realize how nerve-wracking and annoying it is to others.

Again, why are these kids not learning boundaries within their own homes? We didn't screech, scream and wail for no reason indoors or out, it simply wouldn't have been tolerated. At the home dinner table let alone a public one.

We aren't talking the odd tantrum here, but kids who seem incapable of amusing themselves, interacting with others and sitting through a meal without vocalizing at some top volume. It's very bizarre.

Good point about context, Fusion - after all, learning the different appropriate behaviours in (say) a park and a theatre is an important life skill in itself

My dtwins aware almost 1. They love going out/eating out and yes they shriek. Short of gaffa tape there's not a lot I can do about it. I stick to family type places but a miserable fucker like the op wouldn't stop me from taking them out.

She specifically says toddlers, not badly behaved children. Babies/toddlers/children have just as much right to be in a cafe or restaurant as you do op. Suck it up.

I wasn't going to engage as I don't have a problem in this area, either with other people's kids being noisy or my own, but thevillage how often do you experience people 'with noisy, explosive bowel issues' when you're out to eat? I love all that pseudo posh language you use too...hilarious!