If your toddlers screech and scream in public

[JackandDiane]

In a cafe say, Non tantrum. Just doing it. Tell them to shut up please. It's fucking annoying.

Totally with you OP and I have a three year old.

Meltdowns and tantrums are totally different.

Im afraid sometimes children make noise. Personally if it would depend on how long it was going for for me.... i tend to completely ignore a bit of shrieking because i find that if he sees a reaction he thinks its a game or its funny so does it more. Hes only 1 though. I take him most places, coffee shops, out for dinner, galleries, shopping and do you know i literally dgaf if people get annoyed if he shouts a bit. Im trying my best overall and hes usually very good, occasionally he makes a bit of noise. I understand people are just trying to live their lives but so am i and so is my child. I dont know how you teach kids to behave in public if you never take them out in public except to kids events or specific kids places. My parents took me everywhere with them too and i learnt fast to be quiet if we were at dinner somewhere posh etc Im often complimented on how friendly and calm my boy is and yes some of that is just luck its how he was born but also its because hes so used to being in social situations with adults that he doesnt play up. Im a big believer in compliment the positive and ignore the negative. Its early days yet but it seems to work best. Children want a reaction it doesnt matter if its anger as long as its a reaction so if you shout at them for every little noise they are just going to know that it gets that reaction and do it more. Also if you are rude enough to say 'shut up!' to a child that is what they are going to go round saying to other people.

Distracting them sometimes works or if it is just going on for ages then take them somewhere else to calm down but i really dont think telling them to shut up is going to have a great effect no.

puzzled I see what you mean. I wouldn't shout at someone who told my child sharply to 'Be quiet!' but I wouldn't like it much..however, a few weeks ago I was struggling with a bored and tired 4 year old and 30 degree heat at 30 plus weeks pregnant in a crowded shop (was not a good day) and he was not behaving well. One lady said 'Behave for your mummy, please' in a firm but kind voice and I did think that was sweet. The shock helped him calm down for about 3 minutes but I was touched rather than offended.

Was it your intention to polarise this discussion, OP? Do people have to choose between, on the one hand, looking on lovingly at the sound of blood-curdling screams or, on the other, never tolerating any sound above a whisper? I mean, could there be a third possibility, that, oh I don't know, that WE'RE ALL DOING OUR FUCKING BEST?

I am highly aware of how my children behave in public. Usually they're fine. But, do you know what, occasionally the 2 year-old will be having a shitty day. Like today. She feels a bit under the weather due to bowel issues. BUT it's her older sister's birthday outing, which involves some time in a café. Was she perfectly quiet? No? Did I do my best, between speaking quietly but firmly to her, and variously taking her just outside the door (and wrestling with her a bit when she tried to run around - something I feel would shock you to your very core) to prevent her being a pain? Yes, I bloody did. But I doubt it would be enough for the 'Just Tell Them' brigade, of which you, apparently, are the self-appointed leader.

She's not a feral monster - she's two. She's learning. As others have pointed out, there is a teaching/learning phase. Unless you misunderstand the process of teaching and learning, you'll agree that there is a phase where the learner does not do it all perfectly all the time. Are we not allowed out until it's guaranteed that she will not make a noise?

Two things stuck out at me from your irritating posts. Firstly, you keep going on about 'removing' from the situation. Whose life is like this? I'm on a pretty tight schedule all the time, or I'm working around my older child (did she need to be removed from the café halfway through her sandwich too?). I don't often linger places with a toddler for the sheer joy of attracting your scathing glances.

Secondly, you said 'if mine had been screamers'... Oh, so you have no direct experience of a child prone to noise? But you ARE best placed to lecture the rest of us? Really? What a crock of shite. You're that parent who theorises about how to deal with difficult situations THAT YOU HAVE NEVER EXPERIENCED.

Honestly, this sort of preachy bullshit is why I can't tolerate netmums any more. It seems it's spread over here.

One lady said 'Behave for your mummy, please' in a firm but kind voice and I did think that was sweet

I completely agree; that sounds like a lovely way of putting it, and as you suggest, so much depends on how things are said

Personally I've never thought it any more acceptable to be rude to a child than to an adult. We can all only do our best and even then it won't always work, but at least most folk tend to try - and IME calm, quiet and consistent gets the job done more often than not

^ what Merchant said

oh her post is way too long and boring.

I work with 26 4/5 year olds and have become immune to the noises and squawks of small children (unless it's that injured-crying that can only be done in true emergencies, the sort that begins with five seconds of absolute silence). You can learn to tune it out.

I also have a 10 year old with ASD (and a 5 year old without) and will openly admit there are times he's loud even now. I reason with him, explain the difference between indoor and outdoor voices and all that nonsense but, ultimately, he's a young boy and if he makes an occasional sound which pisses someone off, I couldn't give a feathered fuck. The same with the 5 year old. Small children make noises, clunk about and laugh loudly. Surely life is too short to take offence at such completely inane stuff?

2nds sez: All young kids make bloody noise, you don't want to listen to noise stay at home.

See, that's where the shift has taken place. Previously it would be the disruptive being who was kept at home, until he/she could learn not to be disruptive to and inconsiderate of others. Including toddlers. People were chagrinned, not defensive, if their kids were the cause of discomfort to others.

Now many parents take the attitude "you don't like it, fuck off and stay home. My kid has a right to be/do whatever/whenever no matter how inappropriate and rude."

Makes life less civilized for all of us - them included, though usually they don't realize it.

Yes, v clever OP - just refuse to engage with people who disagree with you.

You seem like a really nice person.

Wonder what your next thread will be - perhaps 'Why doesn't anyone like me when I'm manifestly much better than everyone else?'

Also, you sound quite thick if you can't scan through a couple of paragraphs of someone else's post... unless... you weren't trying to be... funny, were you?!

TheVillageTaxpayer I'm going to respectfully disagree; I spend a lot of time around families and children and the huge majority do try and teach them to respect those around them, to play more quietly when it could cause upset to others. It's a rare parent who declares "fuck everyone, my kid can do as it pleases", and when that is the case, there's generally more worrying stuff going on than loud noise.

Parents aren't a huge group of disrespectful asshats without manners or class. They do their best, and sometimes it's not enough and their children still get on other folks nerves. It's impossible to win all the time at parenting and threads such as this seem to make it even harder.

Village So you're another one only able to think in extremes? What about the parent who's trying their best but whose child isn't totally silent? Ever come across that mind-blowing scenario?

Also - 'disruptive being'? You sound nice.

Oh it's her again, the poster that starts off really antagonistic threads then is just rude. Then she goes off and changes her name to another combination of male and female names but everyone still knows who she is because she's so rude blah blah blah blah...,..

Recently I got huffing and angry puffing from my neighbours in a cafe qhen my 2 year old started crying loudly. I was mortified !

They didn't even give me time to try and calm her before muttering under their breath. If she had carried on I would leave. ..but I should be allowed a few minutes to calm her down !!

Just to add I did stop her crying within a few minutes but I felt all eyes on me while trying to settle her. It felt like people thought I should not have even come in a cafe with a child who makes any noise at all.

But in the few minutes you take to calm her down, she has disrupted the ambiance for people who were out to have a pleasant meal.

Many people do think that children who can't control themselves don't belong in a cafe. What is the pressing need for a two-year-old to be eating away from home? Even on a cross-country trip there is McDonald's or a picnic of supermarket food in a park or something. Why does your desire for a meal out take precedence over others' desire for a peaceful, pleasant occasion?

Kids don't "need to be out in public so they can learn." What many of us have experienced is that kids learn proper decorum at home, then they are taken out. They earn the privilege, they don't practice on innocent bystanders and restaurant operators. That's assuming of course the parent exerts the effort to serve meals at a table and to train the child in proper manners.

The default in public decorum, everywhere, "adult place" or not, is to refrain from disturbing others. If you are in charge of someone who is incapable of doing that, it's up to you to see that they don't cause loud noises and other disruptions. If that means not being there until they can, so be it.

You don't get to tell people who are behaving according to normal standards that THEY should be the ones to go elsewhere. And sorry, but no matter how much parents would like it to be so, screeching/screaming/shrieking/shouting do not constitute normal standards of behaviour whether indoors or out, in public places.

Village You go to a cafe for ambiance? ?

(And it's 'practise' with an 's' in that context. Hope you're not 'training' your children in that shit spelling.)

Where I come from, it's "practice." There's a wide world out there, Merchant.

It doesn't matter why I or anyone else is in a cafe if we are not disturbing others.