If your toddlers screech and scream in public

[JackandDiane]

In a cafe say, Non tantrum. Just doing it. Tell them to shut up please. It's fucking annoying.

Hi all,
We are receiving numerous reports about this thread, can we remind everyone to stick to our guidelines please?

Village Do you actually have any friends to go to theatres and restaurants with though? Do you reeeeeally?

i will stick to the guide line happily but sorry disablist posts always make me swear.

Faster and a couple of others, I do find that personal critiques/attacks are the last resort of posters with little else to contribute. I haven't said anything mean or personal about anyone on this thread; I've stuck to the issue under discussion.

Shrug. People can console themselves by pretending that my opinions and standards are not the norm, but in most places they are. No one ever looked askance at quiet diners or shoppers, after all. No one has ever congratulated a family for how loud its children shriek in church or in a play yard or at a theater.

If you think you are justified and righteous in your standards for public behaviour, carry on and don't worry about what the rest of us are thinking.

Again, why are these kids not learning boundaries within their own homes?

Because they can't learn how to behave in public while staying in their own homes. They can't learn how to deal with environments that are foreign to them. Because parents do actually need to go places outside of their homes with their children on occasion. It's quite narrow minded to suggest that all aspects of social learning can happen in the home.

What bendydick said:)

village your standards are not the norm, as most people don't think people with sn should be locked away and hidden. That's not normal thinking. That's disablist and quite frankly a disgusting way to think. Children scream and screech. Yes it can be annoying, but you can't say they're not allowed somewhere because the noise upsets you. That's ridiculous.

Thevillage so what about babies/toddlers who can't yet talk and verbalise through babbling and excitable shrieking. They should be kept at home?

You must be having a laug. as pp mentioned children need to experience various situations to learn how to behave appropriately.

We didn't screech, scream and wail for no reason indoors or out, it simply wouldn't have been tolerated.

This made me howl laughing. I assure you, as a 2/3 year old you most certainly did screech on occasion. We all did. However highly you think of yourself, it's pretty much a given that you didn't emerge from the womb having already grasped social etiquette.

I'll admit that I'm one of the people who sends blistering looks in the direction of screaming and shrieking children but I'm not judging the parents, I'm in too much pain to judge anything at that point. Fortunately my children are a bit older and can be trusted to remain at the table in a cafe for example while I escape, in the past though they were the ones who paid the price when shrieking children were not removed.

I have hyperacusis, I cannot change that (as much as I would love to) - screaming and shrieking children are pure torture for me and something I will never have a tolerance for.

I am with OP. I think people should try to teach their NT children to keep quiet. My children attended a North London junior school, and I am only too aware of how the parents there did not want to squash their precious DCs' creativity, and let them run riot/scream to their hearts' delight. I used to feel mortified in cafes etc as other diners shot us (justified) dirty looks as the children caused mayhem. Not a SEN in sight, I know that for sure. The parents were just 'liberal' and wanted their children to be 'free thinking'. The few European, American and Asian parents were appalled by the lack of discipline.

My toddlers never screamed in public (to correct a pp's assumption that this never happens). There may be the odd time where a parent can't control their child, in which case they should leave the restaurant. I remember doing that when DD2 was a newborn and cried, I left immediately so that other diners would not be disturbed. People need to be more considerate, and realise that not everyone adores your offspring. In my North London enclave, there was definitely a culture of institutionalised indulgence of children's individuality, which I found very embarrassing.

Of course I could just be scarred by my experiences! The arrogance of the parents smiling as the poor waiters at Pizza Express dodged their darling children hurtling around was just too much for me.

Hmmm. In some ways and as a mum if two toddlers I kind of agree, BUT I made a major discovery yesterday. Normally when I do a big shop, chocolate buttons are required to prevent whining (eldest) and screaming (youngest). Yesterday I decided we all need to be healthier so was determined to do snack free shop. They'd both eaten and weren't tired. Not poorly or teething or upset about anything. When the carrying on started I ignored it and carried on shopping. It was noisy and embarrassing when quite a few fellow shoppers glared. But it stopped after a remarkably short period (say 3 or 4 mins) and we finished the shopping calmly. So what I'm saying is that sometimes there's a good reason why strangers are asking you to put up with a bit of noisy shouting!

Agree Op

Village you are the only person on here who has made disabilist comments so that shows your views are not the norm.

Agree op. Also, could my neighbours at the back please encourage their children to play in the garden without the perpetual screaming too? Thanks so much.

What about old people, Village? Do you hate them too - you know, if they get a bit hard of hearing and speak really loudly, or if they're a bit frail and wobbly, occasionally knocking things over etc? Does that annoy you and mean that they should be locked up at home?

No one is suggesting that toddlers go to a silver service dining experience, by the way - just a regular cafe, I think, was the original scenario.

We all have to rub along in this world, with life's rich tapestry and all that. No one is suggesting that you should stand by indulgently if your child is screaming continually. .. but a bit of flexibility and understanding, perhaps? ? Ffs. Are you really this miserable?

What do you suggest I do when my 9-month-old screeches and screams in public? He's not unhappy he's just trying to get attention. He's realised that screeching loudly at a stranger will make them look at him. He is too young to use words or to understand why he mustn't screech. I do shush him and try to calm him, but I'm not about to leave a coffee shop/cafe just because he's making a noise.

DayofMaypoles I suggest you RTFT! No one is talking about babies!

YANBU. DS3 was quite a screecher and his mum would always be telling him to be quiet. It rarely worked mind you but she tried her best, I try to apply that logic now. If the parents are TRYING to keep them relatively quiet I try to be patient, toddlers are a handful and a half.

God, some of the attitudes on this thread are appalling. The idea that people should just "suck up" the dreadful behaviour of your children wherever it happens is ridiculous.

I have two kids, 1 NT and one with SN. Of course I don't think they should be locked away but I also know that some people have made the decision not to have kids, or are spending what little money they have treating themselves to a rare meal out and deserve to be able to enjoy that in peace.

Therefore when I take my kids out, I take them to places that are absolutely unambiguously child friendly, full of noisy children and therefore not frequented by people who want a bit of peace. Your children don't NEED to be out at 9pm in a smart restaurant, and nor do you. So if you can't be sure they won't totally ruin the experience for the rest of the diners, don't bloody take them. It's one of the sacrifices you make as a parent.

Your children don't NEED to be out at 9pm in a smart restaurant, and nor do you

Nobody 'needs' to be in the restaurant. People go there because they want to. I will continue to take my baby out in the evenings to smart restaurants, life shouldn't be on hold just because you have a child. People with babies have as much right to eat out and socialise as those without babies. And if a restaurant has high-chairs and baby changing facilities I assume it's child-friendly.

What's funny, given the sheer number of people saying they'd be furious if someone intervened, is how many times parents say something along the lines of 'stop x or the ticket lady will throw you off/tell you off/be cross'. And once or twice I've actually been asked directly to tell kids off. Nope, no way, don't involve me. No good can come of that and I'm not playing the big bad wolf for anyone. Just interesting that it happens quite often, given the responses here.

My friend is a police officer and says the same thing. She glares at the parent and says 'we're supposed to be the person your child comes to if they're lost or something bad has happened. They're never going to do that if we tell them off for every little thing or if you threaten that we'll take them away...'.

Honestly.

"Nobody 'needs' to be in the restaurant. People go there because they want to. I will continue to take my baby out in the evenings to smart restaurants, life shouldn't be on hold just because you have a child. People with babies have as much right to eat out and socialise as those without babies. And if a restaurant has high-chairs and baby changing facilities I assume it's child-friendly."

I'm lucky because I have some family support that allows me to have some child free time once in a while. My friend, who lives too far away for me to help out, doesn't. She came to visit me recently for one night without her (2 SN 1NT) children. It was her first night out in over a year. My DH looked after our kids while we went out to a nice restaurant at around 8.30pm. No kids in there bar one family with a toddler and a baby. Toddler ran around, at times running his toy car up our chairs. Baby screamed/cried throughout. The look on my poor friends face (she'd never say anything, she's too nice) when she realised that her one night away from screaming/crying was pretty much ruined was really sad. If that family wanted to eat/socialise out, there are plenty of family pubs in the area. I'm sure, Maypole, you will continue taking your baby wherever you like, and therefore continue to be a bit of an arse.