does it bother you that men use this site also?

[SomethingLike]

Sometimes very female skewed things are discussed and I can't help feeling slightly uncomfortable when I read: "Male perspective here..."

I'm sure I am BU but does anyone else feel the same? I am struggling to put into words why it bothers me but it does.

Oh and that 'unnecessary and counter productive self-pitying attitude' of course, which women tend to have.

But I'm not discriminating against women, no no. Women don't face ANY discrimination in the workplace.

I don't tell my daughters that they are equal to men, they are clearly not

Seriously? Why aren't they?

Everybody is getting angry and shouting and I'm scared!

That's the civilised and insightful discussion gone down the pan. For a while there it was very good and informative.

No. But i get what you are saying. It would bother me if it were drowned out by the voices of men but its not its just a few men here and there which is fine. I think the men interested in mumsnet are gonna be quite decent guys who want to parent well or understand what women are thinking better or something so its never gonna be too much of a problem. You arent likely to get the same sort of men shouting at you as you do if you post a comment on a Guardian article or something. I do see where the fear comes from though because it is common that the opinions and discussions of women can be derailed completely by aggressive men online. You might get the odd MRA nut trying to get a reaction but its not common is it.

TiggyD are you triggered? It's ok we have a safe space from teh evil patriarchiez. WellErrr you are certainly a special snowflake. Time to wrap you in cotton wool

Missmatted, is your z key sticking?

Better believe it :)

I don't tell my daughters that they are equal to men, they are clearly not
Seriously? Why aren't they?

Give me strength.

Really - why?

Why would you tell your daughters they're not equal to men?

They are not the same as men. They don't have penises or the same muscle mass or testosterone levels.

But they are ABSOLUTELY equal. Equality does not mean identical. Women are of equal worth to men and should have equal opportunities.

And the irony of having to spell this out to someone who is adamant that women face no discrimination is not lost on me

As a woman, I have exactly the same rights, choices and opportunities than my brother. no in reality you don't

I have access to the same education males are STILL more likely to get places especially on stem courses, I can have the same job but be paid less for it, face discrimination in it, risk losing it to manufactured reasons if you become pregnant manage my finance easier for men to get loans because they earn more vote but subjected to misogynistic campaigning by mostly male politicians buy my house but if buying alone can't afford as big a mortgage start and run my business, drive and own my car, travel see the mn article about women travelling with children with different surnames, attitudes to women travelling alone make my own choices about my body and medical preferences nope! Easier for men to get sterilised, even here in the uk access to abortion is not guaranteed, still subjected to misogynistic attitudes from male drs especially as a 'hysterical' mother
I can marry who I want providing they ask - still very rare for women to propose I can leave my partner but you'll be expected to have a damn good reason why especially if you have kids and are 'taking his kids away' huge financial implications divorce bloody difficult without legal aid if you're on the pay gap reduced wage I can be elected how many women MP's councillors do we have?

As for telling your daughters they're not equal to men - I have no words

In addition

Women more likely to be arrested for violent crime (same crime committed by a man likely to be dismissed as 'he was wound up' eg) women more likely to get custodial sentences.

Internalised misogyny - doncha love it!

Even in the Guardian they have had to admit this. This pay gap reduces and then reverses around the average age of having children and taking time out of the work place

Well of course it will.

It's completely unrealistic to think you can cut your hours, not be available for (in the case of salaried employees unpaid) overtime, not be prepared to work weekends, not prepared to be involved in ancillary activities like marketing and all the other add ons which are essential for progress in my career and still expect to get the same pay and same opportunities for promotion.

Do you really think it's fair that for example the person who went off to have her first of three babies at the same time as I had my one, who had barely any time actually working between them, who came back part time , who took no part in any extra curricular work, who was never available for overtime should continue to progress and be paid in exactly the same way as I did - (return to work full time after 3 months)

Lass - Except society is still set up so that it is the mother who takes time off to look after DCs, not the father. Most children have 2 parents. If we had an equal society, any time out should affect both parents careers. It doesnt.

Exactly cleaty.

'I visit mumsnet for the bun fights. You get a different class of sniping on MN'

Well said cleaty

Same is true for care of elderly relatives - women tend to be the ones that take on caring duties.

shark

I assume i have missed something...why arent your girls equal to boys

Mine is

- Except society is still set up so that it is the mother who takes time off to look after DCs, not the father. Most children have 2 parents. If we had an equal society, any time out should affect both parents careers. It doesnt.

That's up to individuals. It has nothing to do with an equal society. It is completely unrealistic to expect pay and promotion prospects won't be affected if you choose to work part time / opt out of the add on parts.


Did I MISS something?

Lass can men take the same time off as women now? Are women not penalised for doing the lions share of the childcare?

That is such a lovely, hopeful post, Ego. It's actually made me feel rather happy and positive!

I have to say, Mumsnet has changed my views, opinions, knowledge, and understanding of many things.

Yes I too like the open-ended debate thing on MN and have learned an awful lot over the approx 10 years.

I can poss see why some posters would be sceptical about male posters such as me from time to time but it isn't a women's site. It's a parents and non parents site. Other sites are available.

when your employer's own pay audit (not my "beliefs" as you so charmingly minimise the situation) reveals a problem, you still have to go to court to get it fixed.

Lurcio, why were they doing pay audits if they weren't going to fix it? I was pay audited in a previous company, and got a 26% payrise as a result - I didn't even know we'd been audited till that happened. (I had asked about pay a couple of years earlier and just had the response it was a sackable offence to discuss pay, but I didn't exactly feel I could say "told you so".)

Not all women take time out to have children, and we still get paid less (and we're told pay is performance related. Bollocks is it. I'd be on way more than most of my colleagues were that so, not 13% behind.)