does it bother you that men use this site also?

[SomethingLike]

Sometimes very female skewed things are discussed and I can't help feeling slightly uncomfortable when I read: "Male perspective here..."

I'm sure I am BU but does anyone else feel the same? I am struggling to put into words why it bothers me but it does.

Of course it would WellErr but how would you know when they don't say?

Its the MRA view that Western Women are not oppressed, and very sad to see that view expressed in such robust terms here.
The article about privilege is not 'utter crap'.

I also think that there is something very powerful about a popular internet site being called 'Mumsnet'. There is a strong cultural impetus to regard mothers as an unthinking mass: sometimes we're thought of as weather (a background, against which individuals grow and live out their life-stories; an emotional climate - either clement or inclement, in which individuals grew up); as a source (resource) of nourishment (food and comfort) - which makes us quite similar to a natural resource, like the earth; or a cow-like, dreaming herd that leaks children and milk.

When 'mothers' think, or speak, that thinking and speaking is greeted with a variety of (often belittling) strategies: mocking what mothers-as-mothers say; 'forgetting' the 'mother' part and deciding it is an-individual-who-also-happens-to-be-a-mother who is speaking. I think the latter strategy is very common (and I see traces of that strategy, internalised, on this thread).

Personally, I think it is very empowering to have the notion of what a 'mother' is challenged by the existence of Mumsnet. I, for one, would not like to see that challenge neutered by the replacing of the name by something innocuous.

The posters here are predominantly mothers. Why would anyone want to erase that fact in pursuit of a spurious 'equivalence', that itself takes place in a wider society where 'mother' still has such negative cultural connotations? It seems like a really perverse form of wishing: as though, if you click your heels, close your eyes and wish, really hard, the fact of inequality and socio-cultural bias will just magically disappear.

Its the MRA view that Western Women are not oppressed

Please clarify how women are oppressed?

As a woman, I have exactly the same rights, choices and opportunities than my brother.
I have access to the same education, I can have the same job, manage my finance, vote, buy my house, start and run my business, drive and own my car, travel, make my own choices about my body and medical preferences.
I can marry who I want, I can leave my partner, divorce, I can be elected.
I don't remember having to ask permission to go on the internet or to do anything.

Seriously, where is the oppression? What privilege men have that I don't have?

I can even join "women only" sport classes or events, which cannot exist in a "male only" format.

The same applies to pretty much all women around me. Those who are oppressed are the minority here!

Mumsnets strength is that it is mainly mothers on here. I joined because I wanted advice from other mothers. or certainly other women. If I'm asking for advice on what's the best weather app, it doesn't much matter who replies to me - but on relationships, parenting, weight loss ( to name but a few ) I'd like the opinions of other women. It would be a shame if this site ever becomes 50/50 male female, as that 'female solidarity' ( or even being told you're an idiot by other women ) is gone forever. I know there are female only groups on FB, but they tend to be small & cliquey & not my thing at all.
But I also want a man who feels he has no where else to go to get help & advice.
It is a difficult one.

I found this place via google when I was looking for information on IVF treatment, a process that my wife and I were going through at the time. From there I started exploring other areas of the site, especially Travel, AIBU and the Relationships boards. There are some astonishingly well informed posters here who have definitely improved my understanding of various topics and indeed changed my views for the better as a result. I have also been impressed with how professionals/experts in their field give up their time to offer detailed advice to those who need it (legal, mental health, financial etc). I do think that there is a bias with regards to the nature of advice (if given at all) depending on whether the poster is male or female, especially on the relationship boards where some of the double standards on show are breathtaking. I fully support some bloke on here talking bollocks/being patronising/sexist etc being taken to the cleaners, but it is also a bit depressing seeing the whole 'mansplaining', 'what about the menz' card played all too frequently despite the male poster in question offering a perfectly valid, if alternative view.

Hmm, my equal pay claim is going through the courts at the moment. My friend won her sex discrimination case for unlawful dismissal when her firm sacked her for getting pregnant (didn't get her job back, though). Just because things are a damn sight better than they used to be, or than they are elsewhere, doesn't mean we're actually being treated equally to men.

Is that oppression though?
It's not equal, but oppression implies you have no way to fight the in justice.

Of course it would WellErr but how would you know when they don't say?

Well you wouldn't. In which case - no problem, as they're not leading with the whole 'calm down ladies, a man is here now' or the other popular male post of 'how can I make my miserable wife give me more sex?' worded in a variety of ways weekly on Relationships.

Sharknado - goodness, I don't even know where to start.

The trouble with sexism and misogyny in 2016 (which is alive and well, believe you me) is that once you see it, you cannot unsee. Do I really want to do that to you...!?

In a society where women are still paid less than men for the same job, where two women per week are killed by their male partners, where rape victims have to change their identities and receive death threats whilst their rapists have Facebook pages set up in support of them, where you are less likely to get into government or management positions simply because you're a woman.......I could go on.

But mull this over; there are significantly fewer women in management and CEO positions, and in politics, than men.

Is this -
A - because women are not as good as men at doing these jobs, or women are t ambitious, or women are not designed to lead etc

OR

B - because the men have a societal advantage?

I can even join "women only" sport classes or events, which cannot exist in a "male only" format.

Arf at this.
How many sports can we think of that are male only, and how many female only?

Men get the majority of mainstream sports coverage and funding, yes, but it's ok, because women can do Ladies Only Zumba on a Thursday evening with nice pink leotards.

How many sports can we think of that are male only

None as a whole sport

Well, that 10% pay difference would make the difference between my current situation where I find myself dipping into savings at the end of the month, and actually being able to make ends meet. So, okay, not exactly being beaten by the Saudi morality police for having a strand of hair showing, but it does matter to me in a pretty major way in terms of whether I'm under constant financial stress or not.

And my situation is repeated up and down the country -women are more likely to be in minimum wage jobs, more likely to be on zero hours contracts, more likely to be in poverty.

what about

c) women are less dedicated to their work life?
In my experience, the majority is less willing to give the same commitment to the office. It doesn't apply to everybody, I know quite a few very senior women, female army officers, female professors. It's a choice, not a fight against an oppression that simply does not exist here.

I am not denying women being victim of abuse, but it's not the norm and it's not the law.
Rape victims are not necessarily female for a start, and again, it's not the norm and it's not the law.
You seem to confuse everything. There are horrendous stories about children being abused and killed. It's oh so wrong, it's heartbreaking, but it doesn't mean that western children are oppressed by adults.

Men and women are physically different, so obviously there will always be differences. Great. Nothing to do with oppression.

None officially Cool - or very few.

But look at sport as a career. Could a woman be a professional footballer? A tiny handful could.

If a woman played as well as half the, say, Leeds United squad (many could), could she be a professional footballer?

No.

Because she's not as good as the men?

No. Because she's a woman. Only reason.

Sexism is ingrained into society.

Harry Potter - a good book about a boy wizard for all children to enjoy.
Harriet Potter? - a feisty female character for your daughter to enjoy (not your sons, it's a girls book. Ugh, girls).

I could go on and on and on. Anyone who thinks women have equal opportunities and perceived worth in society is deluded. And I say that not as an insult, but in the true sense of the word.

Harry potter VS Tiffany Aching would be better, both series are enjoyed by everyone.

You carry on as you are then sharknado

Women are only under represented because they're not dedicated or bothered enough to try, and yeah women get raped and blamed for it every day, but apparently so do men.

Another one to think on though -

A man gets raped after a night out. Is the response -

A - oh my goodness that poor poor man. We must catch the rapist, there's no excuse for this. The poor thing, how can we support this victim?

Or

B - well he must have been asking for it. He was wearing a low vest and shorts fgs. And he kissed someone in the club, he's obviously a slag.

Which would it be for a man, and which is it for a woman?

I'm ignoring the recent discussion about women's equality being evidenced by the existence of women-only swimming sessions at the local Leisure Centre. It's not that I'm not listening - I'm just choosing not to respond.

On another track, what about this for an idea?

It's not so much that you can tell whether a poster is male, female, child-free, enchilded. It's more that Mumsnet has a kind of default setting to a way of being that we might call 'being-with-others'. That kind of mode/stance is quite rare on the internet and in RL public spaces. It's a mode of being that is perhaps associated with parenting. In fact, given the gendered nature of parenting in our present society (though not, perhaps, in our ideal society), it is a mode of being we might associate with mothers.

That is not to say that all mothers are like this, all the time, or that it is a mode of being that is not displayed by others (eg. women without children, men).

However, it is a mode of being that is quite unusual in public life. So unusual that, when male theorists started discussing it, they were seen as revolutionaries in the arena of thought.

Oddly enough, when female theorists have discussed it, and - shock - suggested that it might be associated with mothers, they have tended to be derided and mocked.

Which is kind of interesting.

Anyone who thinks women have equal opportunities and perceived worth in society is deluded.

I disagree, and never experienced any "oppression" in my professional life or anywhere. It's easier to make excuse and blame the system than to realise that inequality is not a standard in our world. Of course there are cases of racism, inequality, bullying. If you give a bollocking to a man, he won't be happy about it, but will not turn round saying "Oh, it's because I am a man". Women, on the other hand, are too prompt to play the weak card.

Harry Potter is male. What about Lara Croft, Katniss, Ripley, the Bride, Salander. If you are looking for female characters in books or movies, you really don't have to search hard.

I find it so sad to teach young girls that they are the victims in this world, that men are the enemy and oppressors and that they don't have any opportunities because they are the abused minority. It's so wrong, and teaching them the worst possible message.

A man gets raped after a night out. Is the response -

More likely

C: Don't be fucking stupid Men can't be raped, you must have been gagging for it. At least you'll be less trumatised by it, Coz you're a geezzaa.

Because there is a horrible societal idea surrounding this subject for men too, to the point where people still belive men can't be raped.

We are extremely off topic now.

That's me told then. PhD, 14 or so years work experience, organising extra childcare so I can take on more responsibilities... but no, my 10% pay gap is because I'm not trying hard enough.

(Actually, it's cock-up, not conspiracy - like a lot of structural pay gaps it's a consequence of overly long pay scales - but the important thing is that what it is not to do with is my ability to do my job well).

In your scenario werr It very rarely option a for men. It is usually Case jason says.

The same for men that suffer DV.

C As jason says

So you're saying that if a man was set upon and had a penis forcibly stuck in him he'd be blamed as much as a woman would be?

I disagree.

Or would it not be as bad for a woman? They love it, right?