to wonder if NCT is a bit too posh for me?

[anyname123]

Hia, first pregnancy, I'm 34 and relocated to live with partner about a year ago. I have made a few mates in new city, but none have children. I'm due in October and just considering NCT as a way to meet women to hang out with on Mat leave. Whilst I'm hardly a scumbag I'm not very organic and middle class either, wondering if anyone happy to share their experience of NCT, will it be full of the brown rice brigade and a waste of a few hundred quid, or is it a good way to meet others in same position? Thanks in advance.

I think Bill's point is correct. It had never occurred to me to take an NCT class - it was my GP surgery midwife who really, really urged it in terms of having a community of new friends around after the baby came. Looking back now, she perceived me (wrongly, as it happens, but I'm foreign and often confuse English people in terms of class markers) as a middle-class professional in a largely working-class area of London, and thought I would be utterly isolated unless she 'found me' like-minded friends. The actual classes were a mere excuse for the social connections as far as she was concerned.

And yes, the NCT definitely places itself in the 'market' as a middle-class icon, maybe the ultimate middle-class icon, given that you can get the knowledge it supposedly offers to first-time parents for free elsewhere. It's kind of a pregnancy/newborns dating group for people who can afford to shell out a few hundred pounds for new friends.

The NCT newsletters/magazines used to crack me up - were they called Gas and Air? Ours seemed to be nothing but ads for those expensive newborn photography services where they dress your baby up and photograph it having apparently fallen asleep in a flowerpot.

With hindsight I don't remember much useful about the classes themselves - ours never mentioned anything about emergency sections and weeks in SCBU hooked up to a milking machine! I mistakenly thought that giving birth was something I'd have some control over, but I suppose it is less stressful waiting for d-day if you can at least kid yourself that you are prepared...

On the other hand the friends I made from my group, that I am still in contact with now after 8 years, are fabulous and I would do the course again in a heartbeat just to meet them :) I have never felt judged on my income level, or my various parenting choices, it has just been nice to be able to talk things through with other mothers who were in exactly the same boat.

I have never felt judged on my income level.

I always find these kind of statements a bit meaningless from people who've actually attended the courses. The fact that you could afford £250 at one of the most expensive times of your life almost certainly means that you wouldn't have an income level which would spark judging anyway.

Honestly was a waste of money for us. A very small group who didn't gel - we never met up as a group again although I see them individually maybe once every six months - they aren't in touch with each other though.

I went to a coffee morning but felt really old as all the women were my age with newborns and my eldest is 9 and I had two toddlers with me. They were very nice but when they started talking about doulas for no 2 all I could think is by no 3 you just let them get on with it!

I felt very judged by my NCT group. Not so much on income but on not having a professional career or a car and on being disabled. No matter how many times I asked the group to meet somewhere accessible on public transport, I always ended up having to take multiples buses to each meet-up venue. When two of them sent me a barrage of angry emails for requesting a lift to one venue, I gave up.

I completely agree about the income necessary to be able to afford NCT classes, but it's not always true that there is an viable alternative.

My hospital had a few one hour sessions during the day, which they only provided information about (and that was only because I asked) at about 30 weeks. My work is booked months in advance to external clients so by the time I found out when these classes were, I couldn't have made them anyway.

Evenings were the only option for us.

There was a labour ward tour for those having second or subsequent births and I was amazed to find I was the only person who turned up for that. I think it's very reassuring to visit the place you will have your baby if you have the opportunity.
With my first hospital class loads of people dropped out after the first week or two.
I think it's such a valuable thing to do, and good to do with your partner too, as part of the journey towards being a family (with children)

I did my NCT in quite an affluent area. At the time we lived in my DHs little 2 bed flat that had been his bachelor pad and I was worried that the others in the NCT class might be snobby. They were, on the whole, all a bit older than us, much biggers houses, much nicer cars and I felt stupid for having spent the money on it as they clearly would never wabt to be friends with me. I even told friends and family therexwas no way i would be keeping in touch with them. Then we had our babies. One of the older mums was in tge room next to me in hospital and we saw each other a few hours after our very traumatic births and just hugged and cried, abd told each other how great we had done. Fast forward 2 years... yes they do all live in much bigger houses than us and have nicer cars and all the latest baby stuff but honestly hasn't stopped us being mates. My point is tgat new mums are new mums regardless of the area and background - we need support from others going through the same thing. I would say go for it and be open minded about the people you might meet

That's a lovely story Bee.

Thank you age of earthquakes - I feel very lucky that it turned out that way and I now have lovely mummy friends.

I find the comments relating to how you 'must have a high income' to afford a £250 class irritating. That's rubbish.
Obviously if your income is very low then you wouldn't afford it. But how much available cash you have relates to how much you spend -how careful you are with the money you earn - not to your income.
I have a lower income but live frugally so I can save and invest, and spend on things I think are important. In short, spending to attend an NCT course doesn't necessarily imply anything about income.

Agree with you Pickers. Equally you might be very lucky and have family that might help you pay for classes or other baby bits which would allow you to spend money on NCT classes.

Reading through the responses I am a bit saddened that so many of you thought the course leaders were rubbish. To train to be a course leader it's c£6k to be qualified. (I considered it, then quickly ruled it out!) For that money I would have hoped they were better trained! Personally, my course leader was brilliant. She really 'got' my group. She was pro alternative pain relief options, but very open to discussing everything. We even had a mocked up theatre exercise for us to get an idea of an emergency c-section and who would be in the room. Her handouts afterwards were very useful and a few of them I kept for my second baby. I only wish we had an extra class for a few baby skills / first aid at the time. She also kept in touch for the first 12 weeks or so and welcomed us to contact her beyond that if we needed her.

Absolute rubbish. It's one of the most expensive times of your life. There are so many things which are essential like clothing, bedding and cots. You need a fairly high level of disposable income to afford a £250 optional extra at times like that. It has little to do with being 'frugal', costs like housing, travel and fuel are high. And not optional. £250 does not simply rule out the lowest waged and the profligate. And I suspect that even if you can't afford £250 yourself, if you have family who can afford to give away £250 non-essential gifts you still probably fall into the middle class demographic NCT are keen to target.

In fact, I think anybody who can confidently declare that at such an expensive time the only people who would struggle to find £250 for a non-essential are profligate spend thrifts and the lowest waged must fit somewhere in that group because they are so clearly completely ignorant of essential financial demands on huge swathes of people.

I actually find that a hugely offensive statement and crashingly detached from reality.

My NCT classes were almost 9 years ago now and we were all a nice normal group of people. Some were more 'middle class' than others but no-one was snooty or horrible. There was a broad age range - I was the youngest, but my husband wasn't. I used reusable nappies for a variety of reasons but no-one else in my group did. Two out of six bottle fed and the others either breastfed exclusively or gave a bottle or two.
We all met up at least once a week in the first 6 months after our babies were born, until some started going back to work. We also went to many of the same baby groups and integrated three or four extra people into our circle from those groups. 9 years on and I'm still very good friends with several of those people - even though none of our children have actually ended up at the same schools! In fact my DD and another NCTer's DD are BFFs and have been since birth pretty much. Quite a few of us meet up regularly without the children for an evening once a month too and we try to get the children together during at least the summer holidays. The only two from my original NCT group that I hardly see are those who have moved away, one to the US and one to the other side of the country!
I'm really glad I did the NCT groups because I met some great people and hope we remain friends for many more years.

Aren't classes means tested? They are in our area. I know some of our group didn't pay the full whack.

Our group is very mixed in terms of income and background and four years on, I can't imagine life without them. I'm not from the UK and didn't know anyone locally before having the children except my next door neighbours. When I had a (very minor) emergency recently, and needed to take one of my children somewhere but really didn't want to take the other, I had a friend here in 15 minutes. They're my rocks.

I didn't say lowest wage, I said lower. I dont think this is the place for an in depth social/political discussion. I object to you presuming we all must have high incomes if we do NCT. I certainly do not. You seem angrily adamant I must and I dont have the space or inclination to give personal info regarding my situation or choices. It would be futile as you obviously have a chip on your shoulder about this.

I am so glad I did NCT. Not for the information, which you can get online or from a book, but for the class list of names & mobile numbers. Worth every penny.

For DC1 my NCT group met once a week for coffee and a moan about sleep deprivation. I'd say they kept me sane. A new baby can make you feel very isolated. Having a date in the diary every week was ace.

Also, maternity leave is so much easier when there are women around you going through the same thing at the same time,. There is only so long you can discuss green poo with your child-free friend or sister before their eyes glaze over. Kids are now 6 and I am still close friends with 3 of them and in casual contact with another 3.

Re class, my NCT 1 group was in a Guardian reading bit of London. Women in our group were teachers, charity workers, civil servants and social workers. Is that posh? They were bloody nice caring women who gave a lot to society.

Liked NCT so much I signed up for another class when pregnant with DC2. We'd moved across London by then. NCT 2 helped me make friends in my new neighbourhood really easily - its instant access to belonging.

There are some grants which help the very, very poorest (who tend not to live in places where NCT classes are accessible in any great numbers anyway). They are tapered and stop altogether at a £25,000, only slightly over half the average income for two adults. Or to put it another way, two adults one working full time and one working part time on minimum wage would go over the threshold for even the smallest 10% discount.

Which is all very convenient, as it allows the NCT to keep their charitable status whilst generally managing to exclude all those awful people like care assistants and shop assistants and secretaries and labourers who are probably busy frittering away their money on silly things like clothes and nappies and bedding and cots and prams and food and rent and stuff when they should be paying for important things like NCT courses.

Even with the discounts they know that it will still be inaccessible for the vast majority of lower income people. And that is entirely deliberate.

I didn't say lowest wage, I said lower. I dont think this is the place for an in depth social/political discussion

The whole point of the thread is the socio-economic make up of NCT members. Seems a bit dense to say that this isn't the place for discussing the exact subject of the thread.

Bill you seem very bitter about this. The original post said a bit too posh. Personally I don't equate posh to being anyone above the first tax threshold. I would think higher tax bracket or someone taught at private school. I am neither of these, but I would agree I am more mc. At the time of having my baby I was financially stretched as we had other expenses, but moving so late in the pregnancy made classes something we budgeted for. Additionally preparing for a baby doesn't need to be extortionate. We had secondhand furniture and clothes, I was given vouchers (for birthday and Christmas presents) that I used for a crib and a car seat. I bought the pushchair using a payment plan and added nappies gradually to shopping and bought other basics including stuff for my hospital bag the same way. I think later on in your maternity leave is far more expensive

Nic, a lot of the discussion has been about the fact that the NCT deliberately places itself at a price point which excludes people and isn't, as many people on this thread are claiming, an organisation which welcomes people of all incomes and social classes. In fact it's one that deliberately and knowingly excludes.

I'm not bitter about it at all actually. I could afford the classes if I wanted. And according to your criteria I am properly 'posh' having been privately educated. I just get irritated by people claiming that the NCT is something it's not. It's an organisation which deliberately targets itself at a self-identified middle class market and prices itself to restrict availability by making courses unaffordable for lots and lots of people.

TBH if anything I regard it as a bit common and naff precisely because it positions itself like that so very firmly and is so much of a status symbol for those who want to position themselves publicly as parents as belonging to that group.

By all means if people go and enjoy it then that's wonderful for them. But I just can't see why they insist on deluding themselves and other people into viewing it as some kind of inclusive welcoming organisation when it very clearly isn't and positions itself very firmly in a way which makes that clear.

Actually, I find it quite interesting that a few of the NCT disciples on here have just decided that if I don't think the NCT is marvellous then that automatically means I am a poor person who is bitter because I can't afford it. Or others who've made comments that if you can't afford an NCT class you're obviously spending your money wastefully.

To me, that sums up exactly the the sort of person that I see as a typical NCT goer and it doesn't give a very nice impression. It's kind of for the Hyacinth Buckets of our generation. Go on an NCT course, go into debt for a pram, get conned out of £200 for a bit fabric because someone calls it a woven sling. Just so that people can flash what they think are the right class credentials. It's the 2010s equivalent of having doilies and a through lounge knocked into your semi. Just a bit naff really.

Hardly think NCT is a status symbol. Also think if you didn't attend a course than how can you presume what type of person does attend? Or what the course is like? NCT isn't something social climbers choose to do just to brag about. Additionally if you can afford to do the course, but I was someone who couldn't, I'm not sure I'd appreciate your self righteous tone.

As for NCT disciple, I had a great experience 4 years ago and met some great couples who have become friends. I'm not a member or have attended any other courses (I only looked at the training while going through redundancy at work). Going back to the ops original post, I recommended she went because her situation was similar to my own. If however you were on the course, I'd have found your big opinions incredibly off putting and I very much doubt either of us would have enjoyed it. Friendships are made through NCT and other baby groups through shared experiences. They aren't made through big discussions on moral issues and standpoints. It's sharing poo stories, sympathy and help.

I actually agree with BillSykes that nct purposefully target a more mc audience. I live in Bradford and the only nct classes are in the north or the city which is more affluent than elsewhere. According to the nct website the only bumb and baby group is in saltaire, also more affluent than the rest of the city.
In fact looking at the surrounding areas most nct classes seem to be based in the more affluent areas.