to wonder if NCT is a bit too posh for me?

[anyname123]

Hia, first pregnancy, I'm 34 and relocated to live with partner about a year ago. I have made a few mates in new city, but none have children. I'm due in October and just considering NCT as a way to meet women to hang out with on Mat leave. Whilst I'm hardly a scumbag I'm not very organic and middle class either, wondering if anyone happy to share their experience of NCT, will it be full of the brown rice brigade and a waste of a few hundred quid, or is it a good way to meet others in same position? Thanks in advance.

Can be really valuable way of meeting people who are local and going through the same life changing thing as you. Sometimes it gels sometimes it doesn't not really the NCTs fault! Personally I would definitely join, was a lifeline in the early days when you are blundering about.

Also I was in London so most of us not living anywhere near family and didnt know many people in the area we were living in as we worked centrally and saw old friends who lived all over London. The value of having someone you could walk 3 mins to the local coffee shop and chat to when you have a newborn and are too scared to get the bus can't be underestimated.

I wish I'd done nct. I made friends with a crew who met at nct when dd1 was 6 months. They remain my best friends. Our kids are best friends too. We are SW, nurses, uni lecturers and we all bf. For reference

Ours wasn't posh. All had fairly good jobs but lower paid than lawyers and doctors I'd imagine. Average age was early 30s. All homeowners, but fairly modest homes (outer London). We met up a lot in the early days and chatted on fb daily but it's since dwindled. I didn't really learn much on the course, and my birth wasn't very natural. I remember coming out of the course feeling very against having an epidural but now I couldn't imagine why I wouldn't want one.
It's like anything really: university halls of residence, desks at work, next door neighbours, classmates. You don't choose these people, it's just chance that you happen to get on. I have met lots of people in various groups but made better bonds with the NCT group as we all turned up to the same class. Sometimes you can meet someone at a baby group and not bump into them again for several months.

I much preferred the classes offered by our local health authority. I found my NCT group to be very posh, the Dads were all discussing their financial portfolios, the mums discussing designer maternity wear. None of them were really up for meeting up and as I was returning to work when DS was 4/5 months old, there really wasn't much opportunity. Most people I know get involved with their local NCT to become part of the NCT Sale group or committee and get first dibs at the sales. I didn't find that the NCT pushed any agenda about feeding or sleeping.

I did NCT. I would not say it's posh but probably middle class. All of the people in our group were University educated, and I think you may be able to say that about most NCT groups. I would say incomes are not necessarily high.
I've met groups outside NCT that were much posher - from toddler groups for instance, where the conversations are all about cleaners, holidays, etc.
It's a great way to meet close friends - you can really bond with the women as you are going through the same experiences together. One woman I met at NCT is now my best friend.

My NCT class wasn't a great experience. The class leader pushed natural childbirth and non-intervention so much that when I ended up having a C section I felt like a complete failure and a terrible person. She basically gave the impression that C sections were avoidable if you just tried hard enough and refused all intervention and pain relief. She didn't cover our situation at all in her classes so most of it was a waste of time. Stupid woman. It still makes me .

I didn't do NCT classes. I know a few members who have that are of the opinion that if you don't have an natural delivery or breastfeed you child for 5 years you are a failure.
Bully for them I say. I had an emergency c section and pointed out to one sanctimonious sling bearer( who guffawed at this) that I'd rather have a healthy baby than a dead one.

I saw this thread when it was still very short and I've had Dara O'Brian's sketch about NCT going round my head all day, including phrases like:

"Keep away from doctors and their KNIVES!"

"a tear is better than a cut ! If I pull her up on that I'll have to pull her up on everything she's said all day!" (Said by surgeon wife)

"Let's get everybody's email address and run!"

(Youtube has a bad clip of it, but don't know how to link.)

However, I did a NHS course and found it substituted the doula/extended family advice missing in modern life. Didn't make lifelong friends, though.

The school gate isn't all that different in terms of the mix of people. I know the question was is the NCT fundamentally more middle class wherever it is, but I think it's not - it just depends on the area and the people who happen to join your particular group....

I did the sure start classes. Half the other mums were under 18. I was 30. They were nice and funny and I enjoyed them but no long term social opportunities for me. The midwives running the classes were amazing and did no preaching. I wanted to meet mums similar to me though so it didn't work that way

I think it’s a shame that so many people write off other parents based on age/ perceived class etc. I haven’t seen this much snobbery and prejudice on here outside the baby names topic.

I think the benefits of NCT depend heavily on your location and personality. I’m not a natural joiner and found it hard to get out to classes/ groups after DS was born so having a ready supply of people to call on and meet up with was a real life line for me. We are a sociable group like a drink and were keen to make it work. DH also valued having male friends in the same boat esp. as a few of them now work flexibly/ part time to do childcare and he catches up with them at the park etc during the week.

I’m amazed that so many people had ready access to NHS courses. Am in S. London and was told I wouldn’t find out if I’d got a space until 20+ weeks. I found the course content really practical and helpful (the midwife delivering the course had had 4 births ranging from EMCS to home water birth) and was able to speak both professionally and personally about each. However, there was no follow up. No one swapped details and haven’t seen any of the couples since. I’m lukewarm about the NCT course content (our teacher was lovely and covered EMCS/ induction etc– the BF teacher was appalling and we formally complained about her refusal to discuss formula/ potential problems with BF)

My NCT mates however are lovely. Kids are now 3.5 and we all see each other regularly. I didn’t find it particularly competitive and though we’re all professionals we’re not all homeowners and have a range of careers/ jobs. Different experiences and parenting styles but we’re all supportive of each other e.g. I had a full on hypnowaterbirth and everyone else had CS/interventions though I didn’t manage to BF and all the others did. A couple of other mums joined us from other groups and together we’ve been through divorce, bereavement, PND, work issues, SN diagnoses and I really value the support network we now have.

TLDR: If you’re the kind of person who joins clubs, classes and chats to everyone you probably don’t need it and if there’s a good NHS class I'd recommend it.

Perkins, nice to hear that other parents joined your group. I moved house late in pregnancy and I have found it very difficult to feel included into any groups as most of the mums with babies of the same age as mine have regular meets with their "NCT gang" and don't ever invite me along. I am too shy to ask. Luckily I've gradually met people through toddler groups and at nursery collections but it was quite lonely. At times it feels a bit like being back at school with exclusive gangs of people - I guess that is just life.
I get that they have "bonded" through classes and birth stories etc but it feels quite limiting and exclusive.

"No snobbery about saying you feel out of place with certain groups of people"

Just a shame that what seems to attract or alienate people isn't someone else's core values, sense of humour, interests or life experience, but their job title, income and housing (because these are the things which have been mentioned most consistently on this thread).

Re: Dara OBrian - his wife is an obstetrician, and I suspect someone who is close to a woman who spends her life dealing with obstetric disasters is going to have a very particular perspective on birth.

Interestingly re: his comments about episiotomy - the NHS doesn't support the use of routine episiotomy, so there is clearly a consensus that a tear IS preferable (in most instances) as most women tear and episiotomy isn't used to prevent this except in cases where a severe tear looks likely or for an instrumental birth.

Maybe his wife has worked in East European countries with their 90% + episiotomy rates. In the UK it's under 15%....

Anyhow, who cares about the truth when it gets in the way of being funny.

It probably depends a lot where you live. I'm not in a posh town so there certainly wasn't anyone who could afford a private birth!

In my group there were six couples, the mums all aged 26-34, variety of occupations from doctor to supermarket assistant. Four married, two not. Three BF, two FF, one mixed fed. Two wealthy, four skint! Three BLW, three puree weaning. None co-slept apart from as a last resort when bubs wouldn't settle! All went back to work, one full time, five part time. No cloth nappies and lots of processed food! But really, all that is irrelevant. You might meet a wealthy earth mother and become good friends. You might meet people just like you and not particularly get on.

I wouldn't necessarily have met these people in any other way but I can honestly say that over a year in they're some of my best friends. We talk all day on a Facebook message group which started as a night feed support chat but now involves us talking about any crap that comes into our heads. Now we're all back at work we still meet regularly on days off, and go out for dinner and drinks just the mums every couple of months, taking it in turns of who drives and who gets pissed!

The NCT classes weren't particularly illuminating but I would spend that £250 again in a heartbeat for the people I met. I had an amazing maternity leave because of them, and never really experienced the loneliness or boredom others talk about.

Whether you do NCT or not, there will be lots of other opportunities to meet people eg classes at children's centres. They can be pretty cliquey but I found that approaching complete strangers with "oh she's gorgeous, look at her lovely little hat! How cute. She looks about the same age as mine! How's it all going?" was always enough to break the ice! Ultimately new mum groups are a bit like freshers week at uni- you meet loads of people, exchange numbers, add on Facebook, meet up then slowly disengage from people you're not that bothered about and hopefully end up with a core group of good friends. My parents are going on holiday with their NCT friends this weekend, 30 years later!

BTW - I wish someone would acknowledge that ALL private adult education which is paid for in the UK, regardless of what it is, attracts mainly middle-class attendees.

Also want to point out that some fairly popular private alternatives to NCT whose USP is that they provide a more balanced antenatal curriculum actually employ NCT teachers to deliver their courses (though they keep very quiet about it in their marketing material...). NCT teachers also deliver antenatal classes in a few NHS hospitals too.

Loving the inverse snobbery. Wish I was so worthy!

It's interesting that there seems to have been such a breadth of experience regarding the teacher/leader. This (as well as the other group members) seems to colour people's opinions.

As has been pointed out, NCT is a paid-for adult education course but with a seemingly hugely varied agenda. There doesn't seem to be much consistency with regards to its teachings.

"There doesn't seem to be much consistency with regards to its teachings."

Try also factoring in that not everyone arrives and leaves NCT without their OWN very inflexible, set agenda and expectations around birth and breastfeeding, and that these colour their perceptions and also that people's memoryof what they covered on their course isn't always going to be accurate.

I have had people tell me at postnatal reunions that they wish we'd covered induction, when we had covered it, at length, with handouts and follow up emails and a sheet of tips for making induction a better experience. None of which they'd read or taken any notice of, because of course it won't happen to them.... I had a mum say to me that I should have told them how painful labour was. Clearly she'd forgotten me saying 'some women find the pain of labour absolutely unbearable and some labours are much much harder than others' and spending 40 minutes talking about epidurals, because this was the mother who was determined to have her straightforward homebirth and had cotton wool in her ears when anyone mentioned anything which might trouble her.

Not saying that some teachers (and midwives) aren't overly driven by a natural birth agenda, but I'm just saying don't necessarily take everything you hear about NCT classes at face value.

I was actually completely taken aback at how anti-drug/anti-intervention my NCT teacher was. I mean, obviously I knew the history of the NCT etc, but I thought it was now pretty mainstream/broad church in its approach, so I was a bit gobsmacked to arrive at my weekend course to discover a stereotype be-plaited fiftysomething hippie in gauzy harem pants who knitted a stripy sock as she spoke, and who was obsessed with the Cascade of Intervention, and made it clear she was covering C-sections on sufferance. And, it being a weekend course (booked late, complicated work commute from abroad, so was very pregnant at this point), so I couldn't dip out and look around for a different teacher.

I realise I was unlucky, though, compared to other people's NCT experiences. She was a poor teacher who seemed to have difficulty with normal social interaction besides her obvious anti-intervention bias, and the breast-feeding teacher, while lovely, wasn't much better. She spent her entire three hours trying to break down an entirely imaginary predisposition towards formula that none of us in fact felt - we were all planning to BF - and as regards actual advice, it was all videos of newborns scooting up their mothers' bodies to the nipple, because it was 'natural'.

I think my response to the actual course content has probably been coloured by the fact that the group didn't gel well and drifted apart well before the end of maternity leave, though - if it had been the source of lasting friendships, I might feel more kindly about the teaching.The one thing that did bond my group temporarily was the feeling that we were all a disappointment to our teacher, who was avid for 'success stories' of natural births, whereas all but one of us ended up highly-medicalised, one woman almost died, and there were two CSs out of eight.

She was a poor teacher who seemed to have difficulty with normal social interaction besides her obvious anti-intervention bias, and the breast-feeding teacher, while lovely, wasn't much better What a waste of time.

Fabsmum I think that's exactly the thing with the NCT. They offer some help for people on benefits, but other than that, huge swathes of people who are fairly low wages, or even okay waged, simply can't afford to splash out £250 on something that is available free elsewhere.

It's a status symbol. If the NCT were seriously interested in getting their message out to as many people as possible they would have a fee structure which recognised that. They don't. Because they deliberately want to be a middle class aspirational product and are happy to price out the plebs who might cheapen the brand.

Well said Bill have to agree with you

FWIW, our NCT teacher was quite sensible on drugs and c-sections. I think they vary a lot.

Just back from meeting with my NCT group. I'm now the only one who hasn't used some form of CIO. The oldest baby isn't even 5 months :( Not a yoghurt knitter in sight.

I liked the teacher who ran the NCT classes I attended. She did cover all aspects of childbirth (including the possibility of stillbirth/baby needing acute care etc), although had a very explicit pro-home birth, anti-intervention agenda.

Our group had 4 c-sections about of 8 but all babies arriving safe and well and all mothers also well. This wasn't good enough though, as she described one of the women's c-sections as "another failure for the NCT" when she bumped in to her in the street with her newborn

I thought that was pretty crap.