to wonder if NCT is a bit too posh for me?

[anyname123]

Hia, first pregnancy, I'm 34 and relocated to live with partner about a year ago. I have made a few mates in new city, but none have children. I'm due in October and just considering NCT as a way to meet women to hang out with on Mat leave. Whilst I'm hardly a scumbag I'm not very organic and middle class either, wondering if anyone happy to share their experience of NCT, will it be full of the brown rice brigade and a waste of a few hundred quid, or is it a good way to meet others in same position? Thanks in advance.

[waitingforsomething]

I wouldn't say it's posh but I didn't have the best experience with the people. We were one of 6 couples and somehow 4 of the girls had been to the same chain of girls private schools (the gdst ones) so they instantly bonded. The classes didn't teach me anything I wouldn't have found out at the hospital class and I found the whole refusal to engage with bottle feeding/pain relief faintly ridiculous.
After the babies were born we met up a few times but they stuck together and didn't always invite me. They all had boys, I had a girl, so they felt it was appropriate to leave me out of things such as a visit to Thomas the tank engine show...really...
I made much better friends at a local group for first time mums at the Childrens centre and wish I hadn't bothered with nct. I have a lot of friends who made good friends though so I think it's hit and miss

[Vedgeoh]

I went to NCT classes as a single seventeen year old single pregnant mum who had never been near a baby.
They were definitely not posh/too posh.
I am so glad I went.
The classes, the tutor and the other women helped and supported me so amazingly and I grew in knowledge and confidence.
It was thirty two years ago and everyone is different and has differing expectations but I would still recommend them.

[LPickers]

Bill I notice youve had a comment removed for being abusive. Your comments on here have been really personal and unkind. You obviously have a problem with nct attendees.

For the record, I never said that people who cant afford nct obviously waste money. You twisted what I said. I actually said that I have a low income (so we are not all high income-earners) but afforded nct because I live very frugally and had some savings. I was a part-time classroom assistant.

Also I am not 'dense'. I have a politics degree. Hence my comment about this not being the place for in-depth political debate. And no, the initial comment did not require it, and just referred to a concern that it would be posh.

People from a variety of backgrounds attend. It is means-tested anyway. Also, people may go if they had it bought for them as a present.

[Pandora2016]

Amazing amount of inverted snobbery on this thread. Just as bad as the standard kind.

It's like being middle class is something to be ashamed of...

I grew up in a working class area. In many ways it was a lovely and would not change it. However, I also got called a swot and stuck up for reading books and going to uni. Lets not pretend that working class culture is any better than middle class culture - it is not.

Can't we all just accept the differences and get on with life?

[blinkowl]

BillSykesDog if the NCT is intended to be a "social vetting service" how come they welcomed me at 10% of the advertised price (due to low income)?!

[bonnyscott]

I don't live under a rock no. Too uncomfy for me!
I'm annoyed that some people on here are inferring that if you're not skint you splash loads of cash to enjoy your baby more - totally not the case with me at all .x
Good luck op with your course if you do it X

[blinkowl]

"what you are paying for is a set of social connections/potential friends which are pre-vetted because of the cost."

That's not entirely true - we paid just 10% of the cost as we were skint, which was pretty affordable on even a low income.

But as long as the perception of NCT is that it's for the middle-class and that it's pricey I guess your point holds anyway.

[BogOak]

Who even uses the word "class" and "posh" now...?!

Maybe you live under a rock, but have you looked at the Cabinet recently? And still think social class is irrelevant to the UK in 2016?

It's very interesting that some posts about the NCT deliberately positioning itself as socially exclusive (or comparatively socially exclusive - I mean, this is not the Bullingdon Club... ) seem to be upsetting people so much, when it's pretty self-evident. The content of the courses is freely available elsewhere via pregnancy and birth books in the local library and/or in free NHS classes, so what you are paying for is a set of social connections/potential friends which are pre-vetted because of the cost.

[blinkowl]

"So Im comfortable financially and I my accent makes me sound like I'm well educated but who the fuck cares?!"

Maybe that's why it doesn't matter to you? Just a thought.

If you have fuck all money, it's harder to make friends with people with lots of spare cash and an affluent lifestyle because they think nothing of suggesting things like meeting with the babies in pubs where lunch for you and your DP for one meal is going to cost the same as you spend in a week for all the family to eat! (Remembering a real occasion here).

Or when even going to a cafe in the park makes you think "shit, can I afford it?".

I'm not saying anything about NCT - we had a very positive experience, made some lovely friends and I recommend it.

Just replying to the "who the fuck cares" statement. If you're on the privileged side of it, just remember, maybe it's easier for you to say that.

[bonnyscott]

Bloody hell! Some of you guys are so judgemental! Who even uses the word "class" and "posh" now...?!
So Im comfortable financially and I my accent makes me sound like I'm well educated but who the fuck cares?!
I'm going to nct classes next month because I'm pregnant and don't know anyone in my area as just moved. It never crossed my mind what sort of person is in my class!
Whether their on benefits or lottery winners I try not to judge them until I know them better!
Try to give people the benefit of the doubt you lot!
(Rant over ) X

[squizita]

...and tbh your continuous "digs" (social climbing, can't manage money...) do sound like you harbour some strong personal feelings about the mums who go. Not the out of touch/corruption at the top - just the women who joined a group lots of people join.

For the record I had a half price mothercare own brand pram and no financial issues and social climbers avoid me like the plague with my primark and charity shop stuff, in my 3rd hand focus full of asda bags.

Nct head office are very out of touch and coverage is inconsistent: it's like a different organisation area to area.
Not sure what sagging off customers achieved though. I went cause they couldn't guarantee nhs courses and wouldn't let you use a birth centre unless you'd done some kind of course.

[squizita]

Bill in my area the nct playgroup was the only one that cost £1.50 and wasn't crawling with social climbers.
NCT is inconsistent area to area.
In my area its NOT the rich/woo choice mainly as it's mostly not ante natal but playgroups and nearly new/2nd hand sales.

[NeverNic]

It was entirely your tone Bill. I've never said that anyone who can't afford it are bitter. It just seems that you have very strong opinions about somethings you haven't attended and I'm not sure how you are assisting the original poster. You are very aggressive and extremely judgemental for someone who has a moral objection, but still likes to show off that they could have afforded it, should they have wanted to. I chose NCT for two reasons - it was what was on offer in my area and I did want to find people in a similar boat to me (not class or social standing). I was happy with both my course and the people on it, so it was good value for money for me. Might not be for everyone. Just don't see how NCT is something you'd attend to brag about. Maybe this is a regional thing. I've never come across the point of view that it's a status symbol. Had I attended one of the alternatives that exist now and been satisfied, I would have spoken about that instead.

I also appreciate your concern that I may have got into debt during my maternity leave, by purchasing a pushchair (which by the way I paid in two instalments at a local store, on no interest, and is still going strong 4 years on. A good investment, I'd say). I can assure you that I didn't as I adequately budgeted to take the full year off by saving during my pregnancy and by saving my company maternity pay. I had a perfectly lovely maternity leave thank you, successfully navigating my finances through buying the extra clothes and equipment that come with weaning, and enjoying the time with my child. Quite frankly I've never come across anyone in real life as concerned with other people's finances or how they should spend their money. Or actually anyone that interested in social and economic classes, that they cast judgment so loudly. Mumsnet really doesn't reflect the world I know.

OP I'm going to leave the thread now. I hope you enjoy your pregnancy and get the support you need for now and the early days. Best wishes.

[blinkowl]

"I'm shocked the amount of people who have said the content of the course was poor yet still say it was worth the money."

They offer reduced rates if you're skint.

We paid about 10% of the advertised price I think.

It was definitely worth going, for the class and to meet other parents locally.

[OhMrBadger]

I have to say Fabsmum you sound like a great leader! The topics you addressed today are hugely important and unfortunately my course leader steered very clear of them. I remember her asking bluntly if we wanted to talk about stillbirth and before anyone could answer quickly saying, "nope? Good." Really the quality of the class content was rather lacking.

There seems to be such a breadth of experience and expectation that it's impossible to answer the OP.

Fabsmum as a leader, what are your course objectives when you begin with a new group of parents-to-be? Do you have a 'curriculum' as such?

[BogOak]

To anyone who is dubious about shelling out for an NCT course, anyone can go along to local coffee mornings and events - you don't have to have done the course, or to be a member of the NCT. That way, you have a social outlet without the expenditure.

[WineIsMyMainVice]

If you're worried NCT is not for you, I'd recommend finding a local pregnancy yoga class. I'd never done yoga before (nor am I a particularly active or sporty type person!) but I really enjoyed the yoga and it helped some During birth - but more importantly, I met some fantastic women! And we all kept in touch after we'd given birth....

[Fabsmum]

"And it has no end value in the way other adult education classes do. It's not going to increase your salary or give you a useful skill"

In my class today we talked about what the red flags are for postnatal depression, explored why women may have it but only recognise it in retrospect. We talked about the different therapies for PND and how to access them, and social support. We discussed the symptoms of PTSD, and fathers' experiences of depression in the first year.

We talked about how to support babies' development, watched a video of the still face experiment and discussed its significances in relation to PTSD, and made a checklist of things to go through if they are unsure if a baby is well or not.

We talked about recognising the symptoms of reflux, tongue tie and the range of experiences parents have getting these problems diagnosed and treated.

We tried on baby carriers with weighted dolls.

We talked about coping with the fear of stillbirth, and about how to take time away from the fear of things going wrong, to enjoy their babies and feel excited about the future. We talked about monitoring baby movements and experiences of seeking out help when they are worried.

We ate shed-loads of crisps and M&S nibbles. Then everyone sloped off together for lunch.

The clients on this course include two doctors (including a paediatrician), a secretary, and someone who works in IT. Everybody had something interesting and important to contribute and everyone was kind, friendly and respectful to everyone else. They didn't want to leave at the end, and the class finished 45 minutes late because nobody could stop talking.

Fair enough - they don't get a level 2 certificate in doing mail merges or something, but I'm pretty sure they got something of value from it emotionally.

[Fabsmum]

"In fact looking at the surrounding areas most nct classes seem to be based in the more affluent areas"

They run classes in areas where they have the most demand.

If there is little or no demand in an area they can't run courses there.

[BillSykesDog]

frika I live in a Yorkshire city too, and it's exactly the same. All concentrated on a small geographic area which just happens to be the most affluent one. It's a marketing position, they're selling a social product. That's fine, I just don't see why people have to pretend that they're not buying a social product when really that's the NCT's only USP.

And it has no end value in the way other adult education classes do. It's not going to increase your salary or give you a useful skill.

And Nic as I've repeatedly pointed out. The discounts only apply to the very, very lowest incomes. Basically students and people on benefits. Even a couple working on minimum wage, not even FT hours, would have to stump up the entire course fee with no discount at all. No matter how many times people repost 'but some people get a discount' that isn't going to change the fact that those discounts are deliberately positioned to help as few people as humanly possible without losing their charitable status.

It's impossible to argue that the NCT operates a policy of inclusion regardless of financial constraints because it quite clearly doesn't and operates a deliberate policy of exclusion because that's what helps it flog its products.

[BillSykesDog]

Oh Nic, so when you make the assumption that people can't afford to pay for NCT courses it's fine for you to chuck in little digs that they must just be bitter because they can't afford it. But apparently I'd offend the same people by being 'self righteous' by pointing out that you're being a bit of a nasty snob? Rightio love.

Yes I know what baby groups are like, I went to one which cost £1.50 to cover the tea and coffee, it was lovely, we talked about poo and gave each other support. The only difference is I probably met a few of those nasty bitter poor people who can't afford NCT classes or aren't dumb enough to pay just to do a bit of social climbing. And I don't think I would have enjoyed baby classes with you either. I wouldn't have had much patience with mothers who splashed out on NCT courses and expensive HP prams at the start of pregnancy then moaned that the end of mat leave was financially hard and failed to see the connection with their earlier spending. But there you go.

And in case you haven't noticed, this is a forum where people discuss social issues and moral standpoints, not a baby group.

[frikadela01]

At least with first aid and computing you come out with an actual qualification and a skill. Numerous people on this and other threads have said the content of the nct courses is poor and they are in fact paying to meet people so I don't think it's comparable at all to other adult education courses.

[BertieBotts]

They aren't that expensive if you compare to other adult education courses.

For example:

Computing for beginners, 8 weeks (16 hours), £105

First aid at work, 3 days (15 hours), £285

Amateur photography, 20 hours, £148 (32 hours £220)

French for beginners, 10 weeks (20 hours), £187

etc. They are right in the middle and it does teach you stuff about childbirth, it isn't only meeting people.

[NeverNic]

Anyone interested the 2016 pricing is here:
www.nct.org.uk/courses/course-prices

I've just checked to see, as it wasn't as much as some people have quoted here when I went. They also say they will reduce cost up to 90% off for people who qualify. To be honest I don't know how many people do qualify, or whether courses really exist at this price in all areas. True most courses exist in mc areas or in cities but in areas like South London, and I assume in other cities, the mix of people will be greater. South London is far from posh, though some areas are better than others.