To ask if you think this is poor first date etiquette or not?

[Toddzoid]

I went on a first date earlier. For starters he was half an hour late which I thought was pretty terrible, I was loitering around the meeting spot feeling like a bit of an idiot and towards the end was extremely tempted to tell him where to stick it... However he more than made up for it during the date. He was warm, kind, funny, charasmatic etc. We were having a fab time... Until his friends turn up at the bar. Instead of a simple hello and introduction which is what I expected, he invited them to sit with us! There was zero effort to include me in the conversation either, it was pretty much as though I weren't there discussing things between themselves about their shared nights out and such. I made my excuses up after maybe ten or fifteen minutes and left. He walked me to the bar entrance, hugged and asked if we could go for dinner next weekend. I wasn't sure whether I wanted to actually and felt it had all been rather rude.

I asked my friend for advice and she said she'd have felt flattered he wanted to introduce her to his friends. I didn't see it like that at all but then I am quite the introvert so not sure whether that has a bearing on things! AIBU to find it rude or is it just me being awkward?

Yep I would be absolutely fine with that. He kept in touch, explained the situation, was apologetic, and was great company.

This

Instead of a simple hello and introduction which is what I expected, he invited them to sit with us! There was zero effort to include me in the conversation either, it was pretty much as though I weren't there discussing things between themselves about their shared nights out and such. I made my excuses up after maybe ten or fifteen minutes and left

It's not being hysterical to suggest this behaviour is out of order on a date when you are supposed to be nice to the person you've invited out.

Nor is it hysterical to suggest that being 30 mins late, turning up hung over still and using some excuse about having had a 'rough time' is unacceptable.

And it's not being hysterical to say think very very hard about subjecting yourself to this behaviour or similar again when the OP has already been in one EA relationship and admits in her posts that
a) her arse radar doesn't work
b) she is going to ask your mum (at26!),
c) a friend thinks it's flattering to be invited to talk to his friends (wow!)
d) she spends almost an entire working day asking a load of online strangers what to do.

.

I wouldn't see him again.

I don't think there's an issue with talking about these kind of things to my mum is there? If I need advice I turn to friends and occasionally my mum. I only asked on here because my friend seemed to find it acceptable (flattering even...) and I didn't view it in that light at all so wanted to gauge what others thought and it's been quite mixed! Thank you for all of your input though, it's certainly given me a lot to think about.

My mother surprisingly advised I give him a second chance but if he cocks that one up, game over which is what I'm thinking is the right path to choose also. Just because our mutual friend (whom I trust) says he's a good person and I'm willing to overlook what he did describe as his worst possible state this one time. Perhaps foolish of me, I guess I'll find that out at the weekend. In hindsight he should have rearranged the date but I don't think I'd have been happy if he'd done that at the last minute either (sort of a pet hate unless it's an emergency obviously) so he couldn't really win in the scenario, aside from using his noggin more and not inviting the friends to sit with us/not choosing a bar where his friends frequent/tried to include me in the conversation.

He's text me a bit today and really does seem to feel bad about the whole thing and wants to make it up to me so I don't see any harm in letting him attempt and if it's shit, I learned a major lesson and I certainly won't be going back for a third.

I'm not desperate . Not at all. Usually super fastidious. I just really liked who he was and I'm not sure I should let the last 10-15 minutes override what was a very good four-ish hours.

I don't think there's an issue with talking about these kind of things to my mum is there?

No, of course there isn't.

And you don't sound desperate to me.

Crikey, who needs the patriarchy to make a woman feel like shit when there are threads like this.....

I don't think there is any harm in a second date. You have your reservations and if the next one doesn't go well then you have your confirmation.

I cringe sometimes at some of my first dates. Particularly the ones where one of us was keener than the other. People do stupid things to try and be cool. One man i dated had a lengthy phone conversation with a friend in America half way thru our date. I'm convinced that he was doing it to impress me with how interesting his friends were!

Also DH couldn't remember my name (we met on OLD) and had to text and ask for it again half an hour before we were due to meet up. Many on here might say that that shows how he didn't care about our date but clearly it's gone well since. I don't think it's especially healthy to "care" too much about a person you've never really met before

Oh see him, OP, don't let posters put you off.

For the sake of one evening out of your life, you'd be crazy not to take it further. If it goes tits up, so what? It's on evening. At least you know he's not for you and no regrets and 'what ifs'.

OP hope dd asks me for advice when she is 26 .
Good luck- go with your gut feeling, and please update

op, I stupidly got drunk the night before a date once and thought I was ok the next day. We went on a nice 2 mile walk to a pub for lunch and I was unable to eat because I felt so rough we walked back sans lunch and I had to sit on the path at one point due to feeling so ill it was just dreadful, and OLD too.

I emailed him the next day apologising profusely and asking if we could try that again. Thankfully he agreed.

We've been married for 7 years now I am very grateful that he gave me a second chance to not be a total twat!

LaContessa are you sure now? Sure you're not actually a disrespectful emotional abuser, and your date just desperate and emotionally immature?

:)

Dammit. Busted.

Better to come clean, Contessa! (That naked self-portrait is certainly the impression I've always gleaned of you on MN...)

Bloke is late, for no good reason

communicates throughout and apologises profusely. least good manners that should be expected

Is very pleasant on date. only good point

Sees two friends in bar and chats to them for too long. INVITES them to in his words “gatecrash” the date, ignored OP, allows them to ignore OP

Later acknowledges this, apologises and requests a second date where he promises to modify his behaviour accordingly. only after OP has pointed it out

“And BTW, I hate the use of the word hysterical, its only ever levelled at women and is fucking insulting.” Agreed! Would love it to be a banned word

“Those posters who think some of us are being hysterical have very low standards imo when it comes to how they accept first date behaviour.” Exactly

“Everytime women excuse a mans bad behaviour its a free pass for them to do it again, and then the Relationships board gets clogged with those same women wondering why their husbands are so useless.” Yep!

I too hate being late and hate people being late for me, it is rude and dismissive of the value of other people's time, plus it wasn't the only issue, and he didn't have a good reason for it.

I see no problem with OP asking her mum's advice, I personally wouldn't see him again. As you look like you will OP fair enough, but as I and pps have said (and your mum I think) if he's rude again definitely move on.

I'm not sure whether to be pleased or insulted at that Saul

I'd be fine with the friends thing. First dates were often in places where friends were - nice to be part of it. First date with DP was at a party with all his friends. I knew no-one. I was flattered and had a brilliant time. Seeing his mates showed him in context.

Lateness is not good on a regular basis but once, and if he kept you updated - ok. We are all late on occasion.

The question is - and it is the only question - do you really like him?

Dates are not tests - you click or you don't.

Unfortunately Bluejug some people click with everyone. Some people are the kind of people everyone likes, and thinks they have a connection with. Charming but nonchalant and often inconsiderate.

Sod "clicking", I'd take getting the basics right over a "click" any day of the week.

But it all depends where you're at in life, what you're looking for out of dating and what you're risking versus what you have to gain. I don't deride anyone for favouring "click".

I wouldn't have minded so much about the friends had they included me in some way. I think all three of them were rude. I was an invisible spare part essentially. I had no way of even jumping into the conversation either because they were discussing something I'd had no part in, wasn't something I could relate to in any way.

He has been very sweet since, I sense he feels shit about how it went. He's bought us tickets for a film we're both wanting to see at the weekend and said we can do dinner/few drinks afterwards. I'll be sure to update . Fingers crossed he's A) on time B) not hungover and C) no random friends crop up.

I can give the man a second chance, it won't harm me in any way and if he's a total arsehole I can drop him, no major loss . Thank you for all of your valuable advice, I definitely took it all on board and am being a little more cautious about him as a result.

Do update. And keep your arsehole radar on!

A lot of the respondents on here expect too much perfection on a first date.

Give him ONE more chance.

But just ONE ...

Did he walk you to the door only and got back to his friend?? I'd be very upset by that. I'd expect him to walk me to bus stop or car at least after having had a date interrupted. To show he was eager to stay with me...And not including you in the conversation...Not a good sign imo

First chance: to turn up on time for the date. Epic fail. You forgave.
Second chance: to pay you some attention. He ignored you on the date. Epic fail. You forgave.
Third chance: when you decided to leave him to it, he still didn't realize he had totally dropped the ball. He just let you go, figuring he would follow up with apologies. Epic fail. You forgave.

Now he wants a fourth chance because he is sorry and you are saying you will give him just one more chance. I think he's got the measure of you.

You know, dates are supposed to be fun and happy!

Better to go & remove doubt either way, than to be left wondering what Might Have Been

Call it First Date Part II

Then decide if you want to see him again after that.
You say you enjoyed his company.
You don't need anyone's permission & just because you asked for opinions, doesn't mean that any are more valid than your own.
Others could just be projecting.
You met him, they didn't.

Good decision I think Todd

I don't think it is matter projection...She said herself she thought he was rude. I think sometimes we want to see the best in people even when there isn't much there... She stated the facts. Charming for a little than unbelievably rude in my opinion.
I'd run before I got too involved a charming but hopeless man. Plenty of fish in the sea. And I doubt he will call back anyway