to be sick of people on FB comparing Syrian refugees to the Jewish refugees

[paintandbrush]

Please stop bandying about the terms 'Kindertransport', 'Operation Pied Piper' and so on because I've studied the Holocaust extensively, and it's not actually the same, ok?

This article says it all better than I can, please read: www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/12130175/The-plight-of-Syrian-refugees-is-not-on-a-par-with-Jews-fleeing-the-Nazis.html

For the record, I really don't believe we should be bombing them to hell in the first place: in this day and age, wars are not won in the towns and fields of North Africa. Wars are won round a conference table somewhere in Switzerland.

The whole attitude of Cameron's government at the minute seems to be "Let's make their homeland hell on earth, then pat ourselves on the back for letting, say, 10% of them into the UK". What a bloody mess.

Yes and they trained in Syria and used the migrant, sorry, refugee free for all to travel back and forth unhindered. Another detail you missed.

The terrorists who committed the recent atrocities had been to Syria and returned with weapons training posing as refugees.

And you haven't told me your magic formula for weeding out the dangerous. And living in an area which is being bombed is not a guarantee of 'certain death'. Nor is it a danger that the UK/Europe is the only means of escape from.

European countries are entitled to use legal levels of force to control people breaking the law, even if they are refugees.

Hmm, the Belgian born brothers don't seem to have posed as refugees at all.

Or to have visited Syria.

MissMargie, why do you imagine that leaving the EU will change the situation with regard to refugees? We will still have an asylum system, and we will still be signed up to the Human Rights Convention.

Still Europeans though eh Bill and NOT refugees.

I think living in an area that is bombed to smithereens makes the odds of death pretty likely. You're reaching if you claim otherwise.

No,Europe isn't the only place to escape to. I don't think anyone claimed it was.

The people I referred to in Europe that were beaten and imprisoned hadn't broken any law. Their only crime is being a refugee. Also, in France and Bulgaria, refugees are beaten by locals, not law enforcement. Noone has the right to beat the shit out of you because you are brown, Muslim and have the audacity to leave a warzone.

www.theguardian.com/world/video/2016/apr/12/bulgaria-vigilantes-tie-up-migrants-turkey-border-video

Even in Syria for the vast majority of the Sunni population none of those things are remotely 'certain'

I'm sure the fact that death, imprisonment and torture are only high risk rather than certain is a massive comfort to the people in question.

Ibrahim El Bakraoui was arrested amongst refugees on the Turkish Syrian border and deported back to Belgium in 2015.

sure the fact that death, imprisonment and torture are only high risk rather than certain is a massive comfort to the people in question.

And I'm sure for the Christians and Yazidis who are in certain peril of these things it would be a massive comfort for them to know that the extreme risk they face which isn't mitigated by being in camps in Muslim countries around Syria was recognised and they were singled out for help by the countries which were best placed to offer it.

Unfortunately this isn't going to happen. Because we have to pretend that we aren't perfectly aware that some of these refugees are far more likely to be the oppressors than the oppressed.

and you've yet to disclose the magical formula that makes Sunni Muslims immune to barrel bombs, Bill

The magic formula is to leave the area where the barrel bombs are being dropped. Which can be achieved quite simply by crossing the border to Jordan or Turkey and doesn't necessitate getting on a boat to Europe.

Lurked if you mean Abdeslam, Belgian police reported that they tried to go to Syria but were stopped in Turkey.

Hilarious of you to mention "ad hom" attacks while hurling insults at everyone btw.

I've told you mine. Can you tell me yours please emily? Or is it simply you one spoke to a refugee and they seemed really nice as usual?

No, I'm referring to the other set of Belgian bombing brothers. You didn't make it clear, and as there are quite so many of them, with quite so many links to travel to Syria, it gets a bit confusing doesn't it? Which sort of illustrates my point.

I said belgian brothers, oh and I'm aware of the irony, just thought I'd give back a little of what I was getting.

You've stated the magic formula that stops Sunni Muslims being bombed in Syria? I must have missed it. I just saw unsubstantiated claims that Yazidis and Christians are in more danger than Sunnis and allusions to Sunnis being 'oppressors.'

Food for thought:

www.theguardian.com/world/2016/may/18/refugees-will-repay-eu-spending-almost-twice-over-in-five-years-report

So emily are you claiming that Christians and Yazidis are in no way in more danger? That Syria is some kind of multicultural love in? That Sunni Muslims have a great track record for peaceful tolerance of other religions? That Christians and Yazidis aren't claiming that as they try to travel to safety the danger, threats and abuse they face aren't following along with their Sunni compatriots?

I think she is, Bill. Extraordinary. I'd like to hear her views on the recent murderous attacks on European Jews and who the perpetrators were too.

Christ, does Emily have some sort of bell that dings when this sort of thread appears? she never seems to post on anything else.

emwazi was a refugee child and look what he grew up to do. ditto the boston bombers. tiny minorities, but the fact remains that you can't guarantee what anyone will do if you open the borders.

for the sake of helping those who can't make the journey and preserving those who live in the areas that people want to come to, there have to be some rules and filters. nor are you helping any country to rebuild itself if you take the youngest and fittest away from it. more money in the right areas to provide safe places, schools, medicine, and those who refuse it because they want to pick and choose where they end up can then be filtered out and ideally returned home.

creating a situation that floods existing populations with people who can't work, some of whom may have extreme views, who may well find it's not the mecca they were promised when they paid all their savings to get here, is not really in anyone's interest.

and if that sounds harsh, I should add that I donate a lot to try and make this sort of thing happen, and would happily pay more tax to see safe camps set up where people can stay in their own country and culture and again more tax for rebuilding so that they can go home. I am heartbroken by the tip of the iceberg that we see. I just don't think opening the borders to everyone is the way to fix it.

Yes, I am arguing they are not in more danger than Sunni Muslims.

The overwhelming majority of the approximately 3.2 million refugees registered by UNHCR in 2016 were Sunni Muslims. Last year, a UN official stated that 95 percent of the Syrian refugees registered by UNHCR in Lebanon were Sunni Muslims. The proportions are likely to be similar or even more extreme in Turkey, Jordan, and Iraq.

As I stated yesterday, the barrel bombs that Assad has been dropping do not discriminate whether you’re Sunni, Shia, Christian or another ethnic group. However, the war does wage mostly in Sunni areas.

Institutionalizing religious discrimination as a refugee admission criterion is not only a bad idea for moral or political reasons, but also one that is at odds with established UN practices and international norms. Criteria for refugee status should be needs based and non discriminatory.

That's because they are MINORITIES Emily.

www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/13/christians-flee-growing-persecution-africa-middle-east